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All worthy Gods must be able to produce perfect souls.

 
 
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2008 03:58 am
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,632 • Replies: 29
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Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2008 07:20 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;60109 wrote:

The God of ants is an ant.
The God of lions is a lion.
The God of men, must be a man.



Really!? Do you have any evidence that ants and lions believe in gods of their kind? How do you know ants and lions do not believe in a man god?

This of course is all ignoring the fact that some men do not worship gods in the form of men, some men worship gods in the forms of animals, and yet other men worship gods with no form at all.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2008 09:34 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;60111 wrote:
Really!? Do you have any evidence that ants and lions believe in gods of their kind? How do you know ants and lions do not believe in a man god?

This of course is all ignoring the fact that some men do not worship gods in the form of men, some men worship gods in the forms of animals, and yet other men worship gods with no form at all.


Exactly my point.

Which of all the Gods we can think of would have the most pay back value?

Regards
DL
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2008 12:19 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
Quote:

Which of all the Gods we can think of would have the most pay back value?


What do you mean by this?

Quote:
The first God was a man first.


How so? who was he?
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Sep, 2008 01:49 am
@markx15,
markx15;60122 wrote:
What do you mean by this?

I mean that we should be looking for a God, be it spiritual or be it political, that satisfies the bulk of the desires that you have.

IE. A Gay person would be better served by a God or a political leader who recognizes that their soul is as perfect as all others and should not be discriminated and denigrated against without any clear cut reason..

How so? who was he?


God is nameless. He was the first true human. The Bible uses Adam as the first archetypal man. If you need to name Him then this is a good choice but hardly accurate.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Sep, 2008 06:53 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;60116 wrote:
Exactly my point.

Which of all the Gods we can think of would have the most pay back value?

Regards
DL


What is your point? making statements about things you don't know such as what kind of gods animals may believe in...?
dattaswami cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Sep, 2008 11:20 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;60109 wrote:
All worthy Gods must be able to produce perfect souls.

In a world where god cannot create perfect souls and natures, like many believe is here, why do so many follo......
The first God was a man first.

Regards
DL


Why He should create perfect souls? God created this entire universe for His entertainment. If every body is perfect how then He will get entertainment by watching the cinema of creation! God created all the souls with equal independence so that those who want to become a perfect soul can become perfect soul by his or her own effort. It is the sole responsibility of the individual soul to decide, you cannot blame GOD for that.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Sep, 2008 11:59 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;60146 wrote:
What is your point? making statements about things you don't know such as what kind of gods animals may believe in...?


Logic is good.

A God in any other immage than man would not do.

It is man that became God. Not a God trying to mimic man.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Sep, 2008 12:03 am
@dattaswami cv,
dattaswami;60159 wrote:
Why He should create perfect souls? God created this entire universe for His entertainment. If every body is perfect how then He will get entertainment by watching the cinema of creation! God created all the souls with equal independence so that those who want to become a perfect soul can become perfect soul by his or her own effort. It is the sole responsibility of the individual soul to decide, you cannot blame GOD for that.


Scripture urges us to perfection. It must then be attainable by all souls.
and yes, if any fail to reach perfection, they can blame God.
If God is too incompetent to create a soul that will do what it is supposed to then God is to blame.

If the watch is defective it is not the watch that we blame, it is the watch maker.

If God is in the kitchen then He must take the heat.

Regards
DL
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Sep, 2008 09:20 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;60213 wrote:

A God in any other image than man would not do.

DL


why? Because you say so?
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Sep, 2008 10:57 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;60217 wrote:
why? Because you say so?


Logic and the Bible tells us exactly that.

What other species has a God that is not one of them?

None.

Why expect your God or our God to be different?

Regards
DL
dattaswami cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Sep, 2008 11:48 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;60214 wrote:
Scripture urges us to perfection. It must then be attainable by all souls.
and yes, if any fail to reach perfection, they can blame God.
If God is too incompetent to create a soul that will do what it is supposed to then God is to blame.

If the watch is defective it is not the watch that we blame, it is the watch maker.

If God is in the kitchen then He must take the heat.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 12:25 am
@dattaswami cv,
Dattaswamy

God is pleased when we use our God given souls and natures. They are perfect and good or evil we must be true to our natures.

We may not have a choice on this because our nature is just that and we must follow it. As God intended.

Even Satan does the work of God.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 06:24 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;60228 wrote:
Logic and the Bible tells us exactly that.


Sorry, saying "logic" doesn't cut it! If you cannot explain to me what this assessment is based on then it is surely not logic but rather guesswork or personal conviction.


Quote:
What other species has a God that is not one of them?


WE DON'T KNOW! That is precisely my point, but it seems to have gone right over your head. We don't even know if animals believe in gods at all nonetheless what image those gods may take.

Why do you speak of things you have no knowledge of?


Quote:
Why expect your God or our God to be different?


why do you expect them to be the same? We are in no position to make such assumptions.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 07:44 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;60240 wrote:
Sorry, saying "logic" doesn't cut it! If you cannot explain to me what this assessment is based on then it is surely not logic but rather guesswork or personal conviction.

Without logic, none of us belongs here. If the world does not work in a logical way then we are all lost.


WE DON'T KNOW! That is precisely my point, but it seems to have gone right over your head. We don't even know if animals believe in gods at all nonetheless what image those gods may take.

Do you see fish telling dogs what to do or how to live. No. Dogs lead dogs.
Men must lead men. God was a man before He became a God.
In our immage.


Why do you speak of things you have no knowledge of?

why do you expect them to be the same? We are in no position to make such assumptions.


If not us then who?

Only a human can think like a human. Any human would conscider genocide evil. God does not do evil.

Regards
DL
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:01 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;60244 wrote:
If not us then who?

Without logic, none of us belongs here. If the world does not work in a logical way then we are all lost.


and again if you cannot explain your logic then it is not logic.


Quote:
Do you see fish telling dogs what to do or how to live. No. Dogs lead dogs.
Men must lead men. God was a man before He became a God.
In our immage.


There are so many problems with this reasoning i don't know where to begin.

First of all, fish can't tell dogs what to do because fish can't talk or otherwise communicate with dogs. Secondly, what restraints are on mortal creatures don't apply to deities. Thirdly, this doesn't follow anyway since someone people do worship animals despite the fact you don't see other animals telling people what to do.



Quote:
Only a human can think like a human.


such a restraint does not apply to deities, not to mention that this hypothetical god doesn't have to be real, simply that animals may believe in it.

Quote:
Any human would conscider genocide evil. God does not do evil.


except humans are the only animals that commit genocide.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:16 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;60246 wrote:
and again if you cannot explain your logic then it is not logic.




There are so many problems with this reasoning i don't know where to begin.

First of all, fish can't tell dogs what to do because fish can't talk or otherwise communicate with dogs. Secondly, what restraints are on mortal creatures don't apply to deities. Thirdly, this doesn't follow anyway since someone people do worship animals despite the fact you don't see other animals telling people what to do.





such a restraint does not apply to deities, not to mention that this hypothetical god doesn't have to be real, simply that animals may believe in it.



except humans are the only animals that commit genocide.


Yes, lesser animals may be brighter than us in this.

The limitation of God's is whatever men impose on them. God can only live in the minds of men. God can only have the attributes that we chose for Him.

We create Him.

In terms of the Bibles and limitations, would you follow a God that breaks His own laws. Kills men, lies. fornicates etc? In other words, shows all the failings of men.

Regards
DL
marcus cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:25 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Quote:
Scripture urges us to perfection. It must then be attainable by all souls.
and yes, if any fail to reach perfection, they can blame God.
If God is too incompetent to create a soul that will do what it is supposed to then God is to blame.


Maybe I misunderstood but it's not a correct statement. The Scriptures specifically says that we can't attain the perfection by any efforts!

For example Apostle Paul's theology was to believe and John's theology was to live, to reside in Christ.
The Old Testament Theology was built on the expectation of Messiah to come and to solve the problem of sin, but not of reaching the perfection. From my understanding this is Hinduism, Buddhism and to some extend Islam but not of Christianity.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:35 am
@marcus cv,
marcus;60249 wrote:
Maybe I misunderstood but it's not a correct statement. The Scriptures specifically says that we can't attain the perfection by any efforts!

For example Apostle Paul's theology was to believe and John's theology was to live, to reside in Christ.
The Old Testament Theology was built on the expectation of Messiah to come and to solve the problem of sin, but not of reaching the perfection. From my understanding this is Hinduism, Buddhism and to some extend Islam but not of Christianity.


God is said to be the creator of all things and that all there is has been created by God.

God created the concept of sin. Why would He create something that He has to return to fix. How many other things does God screw up.

Are we the only blemish on God's continence or are others waiting for a tune up.

We cannot have it both ways. His works are either perfect or not. Choose.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:38 am
@Greatest I am cv,
2 Samuel 22:33
It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect.
 

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