@NotHereForLong,
NotHereForLong;43623 wrote:“Nope, don't agree with you, since Aetheist is always, as a distinguishing badge of honor, trying to shove their theory down the throat of anyone who will listen, so the burden of proof is on them”
So the reason you think the burden of proof is on atheists is because you have a negative generalization of atheists? I’m sorry; that’s not a valid point. Even if it WERE true that atheists are more vocal about their disbelief than monotheists are about their belief, the burden of proof doesn’t rest on which side is more pushy. Lets say you’re reading some articles in a peer reviewed journal on some controversial issue and two experts are arguing with each other. You wouldn’t find one of them saying “the burden of proof rests on you because you’re pushier”.
You also wouldn’t find them attacking the character of their opponents and trying to pass that off as an argument (ie: my opponents are trying to shove their theory down the throat of anyone who will listen). There are many atheists who believe that everyone should be atheists. There are many religious ppl who believe that everyone should be religious. Attempting to pass off a negative generalization of your opposing group as an argument shows that you aren’t interested in a thoughtful discussion.
“and since there is no proof...so the certainty is only in what they believe. What they believe is in their own opinion…. In fact not believing in a Divine force is very niave and based on absolutely not one shred of scientific evidence.”
These arguments can be flip flopped- [Since there’s no proof, the certainty of monotheists is only in what they believe. What they believe is their own opinion, and is based on absolutely not one shred of scientific evidence.]
These arguments depend on the burden of proof being on the atheists, and your argument that the burden of proof is on the atheists is that atheists are pushy.
My friend, there is no question of a "badge of honor" here. Lets just focus a bit on the basic rules of arument under logic as taught to us in school.
Lets suppose I say that Evolution is a fact.
You then then say: "I don't think so. Show me."
I reply: "You show me first that Evolution is NOT a fact."
In the above exchange, I am wrong because I am asking you to prove a negative.
The responsibilty to prove belongs to the person making a claim which in this case is me, claiming that Evoution is a fact.
You do not need prove anything. The onus is on me. I need to be able to provide you with enough scientific proof demonstrating that at least the probability of Evolution occuring is a high probability. If I cannot do that, I fail.
Similarly, for someone claiming that there is a god.
I - as a nonbeliever - do not need to prove the non-existance of god. One cannot prove a negative.
The claims on the existence of god/gods need to be proven by those making the claims. Further, the proof should be about as rigorous as we require from evolution. What do I mean by that?
Well, if I were to say, Evolution is a fact because Darwin says so or his books , then you would be correct in rejecting such a proof unless the writings described actual emperical studies and more importantly, subsequent emperical data, studies and experiments verifed the fact. If they did not verify the fact, then the theory collapes. If they verifed it with caveats,then the theory requires to be modified.
Simiarly, it is not good enough to say "God exists because the Bible says so" or the "Koran says so". Emperical prooof needs to be provided.
That is all I was trying to say and hope I did a better job this time around in making the point. Thanks.