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The Religion of Peace, it isn't peaceful atall

 
 
Red cv
 
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2007 06:43 pm
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,799 • Replies: 24
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Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2007 08:23 pm
@Red cv,
Thank you, looks like I have competition on the 'racist against Islam' front.
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2007 08:37 pm
@Red cv,
I'm there with you outstanding troopers. I'm there, standing tall, looking good, ought to be in Hollywood. Hoooaaahhhh!
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2007 11:51 am
@Red cv,
I liked "Humph" better than "Hoaaahhhh!" Oh and the one that went something like, "Fight, Western Christian Warrior, Fight!" That one was better too.
0 Replies
 
Red cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 06:53 pm
@Red cv,
Well modest muslims breast feeding complete strangers is considered to keep a female "Pure" and modest. Cough cough here's the latest from their esteemed holy man. Urine, I kid you not. I don't dislike Islam only Wahhabi Islam it's a man made cult with the elite in Saudi Arab and Iran making up Allah like rules daily. Egypt is doing a bang up job of making the faithful look like idiots. I can't make up stuff this stupid, Urine. Where does one buy Muhammad Pee? Target?

fatwa free-for-all in the Islamic world
By Michael Slackman Published: June 11, 2007


CAIRO: First came the breast-feeding fatwa: It declared that the Islamic restriction on unmarried men and women being together could be lifted at work if the woman breast-fed her male colleagues five times. Then came the urine fatwa: It said that drinking the urine of the Prophet Muhammad was deemed a blessing.

For the past few weeks, the breast-feeding and urine fatwas have proved a source of national embarrassment in Egypt, not least because they were issued by representatives of the highest religious authorities in the land.

"We were very angered when we heard about the Danish cartoons concerning our Prophet," wrote Galal Amin in the newspaper Al Masry Al Yom, referring to the 2005 publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad that caused an international uproar. "However, these two fatwas are harming our Islamic religion and our Prophet more than the cartoons."

For many Muslims, fatwas, or religious edicts, are the bridge between the principles of their faith and modern life. They are supposed to be issued by religious scholars who look to the Koran and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad for guidance.

While the more sensational pronouncements grab attention, the bulk of the fatwas involve the routine of daily life. In Egypt alone, thousands are issued every month.

The controversy in Cairo has been more than just embarrassing. It comes at a time when religious and political leaders say there is a crisis in Islam because too many fatwas are being issued and many rely on ideology more than learning.

The complaint has been the subject of recent conferences as government-appointed arbiters of Islamic standards say the fatwa free-for-all has led to the promotion of extremism and intolerance. The conflict in Egypt served as a difficult reminder of a central challenge facing Islamic communities as they debate the true nature of the faith and how to accommodate modernity. The fatwa is the front line in the theological battle between often opposing world views. It is where interpretation meets daily life.

"It is a very critical issue for us," said Abdullah Megawer, the former head of the Fatwa Committee at Al Azhar, the centuries-old seat of Sunni Muslim learning in Egypt. "You are explaining God's message in ways that really affect people's lives."

Technically, the fatwa is nonbinding and recipients are free to shop around for a better ruling. In a faith with no central doctrinal authority, there has been an explosion of places offering fatwas, from Web sites that respond to written queries, to satellite television shows that take phone calls, to radical and terrorist organizations that set up their own fatwa committees.

"There is chaos now," Megawer said. "The problem created is confusion in thought, confusion about what is right and what is wrong religiously."

In Egypt, there are two official institutions responsible for religious interpretation. The House of Fatwa, or Dar al-Ifta, which technically falls under the Ministry of Justice, and Al Azhar. All court sentences of death must be approved by Dar al-Ifta, for example.

"These people in fact are defined as agencies of the government," said Muhammad Serag, a professor of Islamic Studies at American University in Cairo. "They are not trusted anymore."

While that view is disputed by officials from both institutions, everyone acknowledges that those who issue fatwas serve as mediators between faith and modernity and as arbiters of morality. They are supposed to consider not only religious teachings, but the circumstances of the time. The position is without parallel in the West, and it combines the role of social worker, therapist, lawyer and religious advisor.

In fact, the relationship between the Koran and a fatwa is a matter of dispute. Some Muslim scholars view the Koran's words and ideas as fixed with little room for maneuver. Others see their job as reconciling modernity with the text by gently bending the text to fit new circumstances.

A second issue is the basis for interpretation. The sayings of the Prophet, known as the hadiths, also serve as the basis for many fatwas. But those sayings, of which there are thousands, have been passed down orally and may or may not be legitimate. Some seek to limit fatwas to the written Koran, as a result.

"Brother Citizens, the Azhar Fatwa Committee welcomes the masses of citizens and announces that fatwas are free of charge and of fees." The sign hangs on the back wall of a small room that serves as a fatwa center for Egyptians looking for guidance. Tucked just inside the entrance of the historic Azhar Mosque, the center is open six days a week from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. It is a worn room with a soaring ceiling, tattered black couches patched up with packing tape and rickety metal kitchen chairs. Five sheiks sit on the couches and receive people.

Page two: A fatwa free-for-all in the Islamic world - International Herald Tribune
0 Replies
 
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 07:33 pm
@Red cv,
one of my favorites sites is Jihad Watch
Red cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2007 08:12 pm
@Red cv,
I've read some articles from that site, I like it. They tread where others (goberment) fear to tread lest they offend the so called moderates.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 05:45 am
@Red cv,
What's wrong with Jihad Watch? I've read Robert Spencer's (from the organization) book The Politically Incorrect Guide To Islam (adn The Crusades (you might want to pick that up, it has a different perspective than yours on the Crusades.) I prefer TheReligionofPeace.com - Islam: Making a True Difference in the World, though.
0 Replies
 
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2007 06:12 pm
@Red cv,
JESUS CAMP is a disturbing, Oscar nominated documentary about a kids camp for the American children of religious extremist Christian Evangelicals. The fact that the film contains no footage of anything that the pre-teen camp members are exposed to, yet it carries a certificate PG-13, says it all. Kids At Jesus Camp Worship to a G. W. Bush Picture !

Watch here the ABC News Report about the film:

ABC news report about the documentary 'Jesus Camp' YouTube - Jesus Camp (ABC news)
0 Replies
 
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2007 06:21 pm
@Red cv,
Red;20165 wrote:


That personal bizarre opinion of one man has been rejected and opposed immediately by all Muslim scholars everywhere and it was not a Fatwa because he was not elligible even to offer a fatwa. He just wanted to be famous by saying a personal nonsensible bizzare opinion.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2007 06:29 pm
@Red cv,
Red;20165 wrote:
I often come across statements on Islamic forums that blame the "West" for Islamic Countries' failings and just about anything they don't like in the world. I'm also tired of their statement that we are amoral, evil and decadent so I shall begin posting articles and Suras that show that religion in a new light and not a positive one. There are many suras in the Koran that will make your hair stand on end in terror especially if you are a female. .....



Quote all suras you can here which you claim to be against women and I will comment on your claims. Also, be ready to comment on my response when I am going to outline the Bible attitude towards Women. I hope you'll be ready to defend your bible then!

And we will leave the sincere reader to decide which religion (Islam or Christianity) honors the woman! and which one degrades her!
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jun, 2007 06:48 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;20203 wrote:
I'm there with you outstanding troopers. I'm there, standing tall, looking good, ought to be in Hollywood. Hoooaaahhhh!

Me makes three.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jun, 2007 06:49 am
@STNGfan,
STNGfan;21060 wrote:
one of my favorites sites is Jihad Watch

What site do you like for Christian jihad?
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jun, 2007 06:51 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;22413 wrote:
That personal bizarre opinion of one man has been rejected and opposed immediately by all Muslim scholars everywhere and it was not a Fatwa because he was not elligible even to offer a fatwa. He just wanted to be famous by saying a personal nonsensible bizzare opinion.
Got proof?
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jun, 2007 06:53 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;22417 wrote:
Quote all suras you can here which you claim to be against women and I will comment on your claims. Also, be ready to comment on my response when I am going to outline the Bible attitude towards Women. I hope you'll be ready to defend your bible then!

And we will leave the sincere reader to decide which religion (Islam or Christianity) honors the woman! and which one degrades her!
Why don't you let your woment decide for themselve? If you did, you boys would die alone and without heirs.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jun, 2007 12:56 pm
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;22417 wrote:
Quote all suras you can here which you claim to be against women and I will comment on your claims. Also, be ready to comment on my response when I am going to outline the Bible attitude towards Women. I hope you'll be ready to defend your bible then!

And we will leave the sincere reader to decide which religion (Islam or Christianity) honors the woman! and which one degrades her!


I'll help. Smile (I'll include some ahadith for fun):

Quote:

Veils

Sura (24:31) - Commands women to "draw their headscarves" over their neckline as well.

Sura (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."

Sura (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.

Bukhari (6:321) - Muhammad is asked whether it is right for a young woman to leave her house without a veil. He replies, "She should cover herself with the veil of her companion."



Bukhari (60:282) - After Muhammad issued the command (Sura 24:31) for women to cover themselves, the women responded by tearing up sheets to cover their faces.



Bukhari (52:250) - [The Prophet said] "It is not permissible for a man to be alone with a woman, and no lady should travel except with a Muhram (i.e. her husband or a person whom she cannot marry in any case for ever; e.g. her father, brother, etc.)." - Neither is a woman allowed to travel by herself.

Men Better Than Women

Sura (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also Sura (4:176)).

Sura (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women"

Sura (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"

Sura (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands if there is no water to purify them following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).

Sura (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye.

Sura (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." A man has dominion over his wives as he does his land. This verse is sexual and it is widely believed to be addressing the practice of anal intercourse.

Sura (4:3) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four"

Sura (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male.

Sura (4:23) and Sura (33:52) - A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage.
Bukhari (6:301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"



Bukhari (6:301) - continued - "[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion.'" Allah has made women deficient in the practice of their religion as well, by giving them menstrual cycles.



Bukhari (2:28) - Women comprise the majority of Hell's occupants. This is important because the only women in heaven ever mentioned by Muhammad are the virgins who serve the sexual desires of men. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).



Abu Dawud (2:704) - "...the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw."



Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another." - Even in this world, Muhammad treated women like party favors, handing out slave girls to his cronies for sex.

Proving Rape

Sura 2:282 - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam).

Sura (24:4) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses (to adultery), flog them..."

Sura (24:13) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."

Bukhari (5:59:462) - The background for the Qur'anic requirement of four witnesses to adultery. Muhammad's favorite wife, Aisha, was accused of cheating [on her polygamous husband]. Three witnesses corroborated the event, but Muhammad did not want to believe it, and so established the arbitrary rule that four witnesses are required.

Wife Beating

The Qur'an:
Sura (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.



Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Divorce

Sura (2:230) - "So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), He cannot, after that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and He has divorced her..."

Bukhari (063:190) - Muhammad tells a woman that she cannot return to her first husband until she has sexual relations with another man.



Abu Dawud confirms this in two places: 2192 and 2302.

Men In Charge Of Women

Sura (4:34) - "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them."

Sura (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them"

Sura (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..." Men determine how women dress.

Sura (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will." Wives are to be sexually available to their husbands in all ways at all times. They serve their husbands at his command. This verse is believed to refer to anal sex, and was "revealed" when women complained to Muhammad about the practice. The phrase "when and how you will" means that they lost their case.

Sura (66:5) - "Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins" A disobedient wife can be replaced.

Bukhari (88:219) - "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."



Bukhari (2:28) - Ingratitude toward her husband (ie. disobedience) can land a woman in Hell. Muhammad explains why women comprise the bulk of Hell's occupants.



Bukhari (72:715) - A charming little tale in which a woman seeks Muhammad's help in leaving an abusive marriage, but is ordered by the prophet to return to her husband and submit to his commands.


Bukhari (4:149) - Muhammad's wives are even told to defecate on his command.


Bukhari (48:826) - Women have a deficiency of intelligence, meaning that their decisions will not be comparable to a man's.

Adultery

Bukhari (6:60:79) - Two people guilty of "illegal intercourse" are brought to Muhammad, who commands that they both be stoned. Apparently their act was out of love, however, since the verse records the man as trying to shield the woman from the stones.



Bukhari (83:37) - Adultery is one of three justifications for killing a person, according to Muhammad.



Muslim (17:4196) - A married man confesses that he has adultery (four times, as required). Muhammad orders him planted in the ground and pelted with stones. According to the passage, the first several stones caused such pain that he tried to escape and was dragged back.



Muslim (17:4206) - A woman who became pregnant confesses to Muhammad that she is guilty of adultery. Muhammad allows her to have the child, then has her stoned (the description is graphic).



Muslim (17:4209) - A woman confesses adultery and is stoned to death on Muhammad's order.

Polygamy

Sura (4:3) - "Marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess."

Sura (4:129) - "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire" (but don't let that stop you, husbands, because your needs come first anyway).

Sura (66:5) - "Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins" A disobedient wife can be replaced. A man can only have up to four wives, but he can rotate as many women as he pleases in and out of the lineup.

Bukhari (62:2) - Same as Sura (4:3).



Bukhari (5:268) - "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty men." Muhammad had special rules that allowed him at least eleven wives. (His successors had more than four wives at a time as well.)



Bukhari (62:6) - "The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives."

Temporary Marriage (aka Prostituation)

Sura (4:24) - "And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done)"

Muslim (8:3252) - Muhammad clearly allowed his men to use temporary marriage as a sanctioned form of prostitution.


All of this is from TheReligionofPeace.com - Islam: Making a True Difference in the World, under women's rights (column at the top). There's more about it and other subjects there. Hope this helped. Very Happy
socalgolfguy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2007 03:23 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;22479 wrote:
Me makes three.


Count me in - I don't want to miss the party.
0 Replies
 
socalgolfguy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2007 03:25 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;22578 wrote:
I'll help. Smile (I'll include some ahadith for fun):



All of this is from TheReligionofPeace.com - Islam: Making a True Difference in the World, under women's rights (column at the top). There's more about it and other subjects there. Hope this helped. Very Happy


Really really well done. I am glad I am on your team.
0 Replies
 
Red cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2007 05:06 pm
@Red cv,
Sword, I'm sure the Wahhabi Cult will commence to breastfeeding and drinking Allah urine in Saudia Arabia, Iran, Iraq terrorist, Taliban, oh the list is endless of cult followers. The difference between the bible and the Koren is we don't take a literal translation of it and live our lives by it. We see the bible as a quide not a religious law. How can any forward thinking society live their lives on the literal translations of a book written in they year 834?

Here's a linky poo, the religious police are animals. Wahhabi Islam at it's finest. WP: Uproar over Saudi religious police - washingtonpost.com Highlights - MSNBC.com
0 Replies
 
One Man Clan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2007 09:07 pm
@Red cv,
In honest, objective viewing of the Qu'ran v the Bible, one can see that they're pretty close to equal.

While the bible has more things I would consider "bad", it also has more things that I would consider "good".

I know what good religion can do the the world. I know it can turn an alcholic or druggy around, I know it can bring someone's life out of the fold.

I also know what harm it can cause. I've seen it restrict freedom, I've see it lead to behavior like blowing yourself up in Indonesian marketplaces and flying planes into buildings.

None of this changes the fact that both Islam and Christianity are purely superstitious.

EDIT: Oh yeah, what I came in here to say *smack head*.

Islam isn't any more sick than Christianity. What is? The culture. The culture in that area is disghusting. While Christian culture has become "liberalized", Islamic culture has remained about 400 years behind in development.
 

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