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Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 03:59 pm
@markx15,
markx15;11651 wrote:
To kill infidels for a chance to get into heaven, and you think nothing is wrong? That is what a holy war eventually becomes, thats why it's called HOLY WAR.


I'm pretty sure that the Crusades were started to fight back against the invading Muslims, and help the Byzantines. It's not the Christians' fault.
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 05:22 pm
@Pinochet73,
That is a political reason, why would killing infidels be justifiable in God's eyes for a human reason? They weren't fighting Muslims, they were fighting Infidels.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 07:59 pm
@Reagaknight,
The West has only one aspect of the Crusades for which to apologize -- that it stopped fighting. Holy war against The Heathen is righteous. Not all are priests. Some are WARRIORS. Warriors fight. :headbang:
0 Replies
 
rhopper3
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 08:11 pm
@Pinochet73,
The only justification for war is self defense or survival. There is no good Crusade. Driving the Moors out of Spain in 1492 was righteous because they were invaders not because they were Muslim invaders. When Charles Martel rallied the Dark Ages Franks to drive back Muslim raiders it was glorious because because a group of half armed farmers and a pick up team of Frankish cavalry drove back a group of ruthless raiders not because they specifically drove back Muslim raiders. When our forces destroyed Taliban and Al Queda forces in Afghanistan it was a good thing because they were people who had attacked us or those who supported those who attacked us not because they were Muslim people who had attacked us...
Also of note is that at least some of the people killed by invading crusaders early on were Christian residents of the Middle East...
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 08:00 pm
@Reagaknight,
The best defense is a good offense. Call it what you wish.:headbang:
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 08:04 pm
@Pinochet73,
RISE UP, WESTERN CHRISTIAN NATION. RISE UP.

Abandon anything and everything that holds you back. Live only for God and war -- yes, WAR, in this age, for the sake of our successors. We are the leading generation of one hundred years of holy war.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Mar, 2007 04:07 pm
@markx15,
markx15;11721 wrote:
That is a political reason, why would killing infidels be justifiable in God's eyes for a human reason? They weren't fighting Muslims, they were fighting Infidels.


They didn't just spontaneously decide to do that- the Crusades were started when the Byzantine Emperor asked the Pope for help to stop the Muslims.
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Mar, 2007 06:12 pm
@Pinochet73,
And that is not a political reason? why the need to call a Holy War? Why not just another war? Let me set up a scenario. Europe, there are hundreds of knights without a cause, many times pillaging and assaulting villages, now the Pope faced with this problem and a request from the Byzantine Emperor decided to kill two birds with one stone, thus crusades, to reclaim the holy lands.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 07:21 pm
@Reagaknight,
Nonsense. God demands Christian conquest. It's not a matter of human discernment. The opinions of pagans and cowards don't matter. FIGHT, WESTERN CHRISTIAN, FIGHT.:no:
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2007 06:19 pm
@Pinochet73,
Tell me why should they fight?
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2007 07:41 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;11890 wrote:
Nonsense. God demands Christian conquest. It's not a matter of human discernment. The opinions of pagans and cowards don't matter. FIGHT, WESTERN CHRISTIAN, FIGHT.:no:


You've got to be a Grunt/Marine.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2007 08:44 am
@markx15,
markx15;11850 wrote:
And that is not a political reason? why the need to call a Holy War? Why not just another war? Let me set up a scenario. Europe, there are hundreds of knights without a cause, many times pillaging and assaulting villages, now the Pope faced with this problem and a request from the Byzantine Emperor decided to kill two birds with one stone, thus crusades, to reclaim the holy lands.


Salvation is obviously a nice way to get people to participate.

Quote:
to reclaim the holy lands.


So I guess you'd say that they were owned by Christians before, so the Crusades were justified for whatever reason, right?
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 05:19 am
@Pinochet73,
"You've got to be a Grunt/Marine."

Former soldier, but......the holy warriors who saved Europe from pagan conquest during the Middle Ages weren't Marines. Neither were they who liberated Spain, over the course of 700 years of holy war. And the Crusaders.....well, you know all about them. ALL OF US MUST ADOPT THIS SORT OF ATTITUDE, IF WE HOPE TO PREVAIL IN OUR CURRENT STRUGGLES.
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 11:16 am
@Pinochet73,
Yes you can take that attitude, but not towards other human beings, or else you are no better than the ones you so heatedly speak against.
Dmizer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 11:45 am
@Pinochet73,
"Nonsense. God demands Christian conquest. It's not a matter of human discernment. The opinions of pagans and cowards don't matter. FIGHT, WESTERN CHRISTIAN, FIGHT"

Some how, I don't think the teachings of Jesus Christ parallel this type of extremist view. What happened to turn the other cheek? I think that in order to call your self a christian you need to follow Christs teachings religiously. To pick and choose which teachings you wish to follow and which ones you choose to ignore due to inconvience is hypocritical and demonstrates a lack of faith in the bibles "Divine" expression.
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 02:12 pm
@markx15,
markx15;12133 wrote:
Yes you can take that attitude, but not towards other human beings, or else you are no better than the ones you so heatedly speak against.


Was this comment directed at me? If not, I would suppose you can disregard this, but if so...

So basically, relatively speaking, if a country succesfully took over portions of the United States for some religious reason to spread the word of their god, we would not have the right to retake our land?
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 05:38 pm
@Pinochet73,
It was directed at Pinochet, and I agree with your statement, you would have claim over the land, what I disagree is that land was the only reason behind the crusades, as was the religious issue, there were political influences acting with the same effect. Having existed a considerable political pull, it invalidates the religious claim of a God "sanctioned" war, IMO.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 08:25 pm
@Dmizer,
Dmizer;12136 wrote:
"Nonsense. God demands Christian conquest. It's not a matter of human discernment. The opinions of pagans and cowards don't matter. FIGHT, WESTERN CHRISTIAN, FIGHT"

Some how, I don't think the teachings of Jesus Christ parallel this type of extremist view. What happened to turn the other cheek? I think that in order to call your self a christian you need to follow Christs teachings religiously. To pick and choose which teachings you wish to follow and which ones you choose to ignore due to inconvience is hypocritical and demonstrates a lack of faith in the bibles "Divine" expression.
Quote:
Some how, I don't think the teachings of Jesus Christ parallel this type of extremist view.

How would you know, have you read the bible?
Quote:
What happened to turn the other cheek?

How many times have you done so?
Quote:
I think that in order to call your self a christian you need to follow Christs teachings religiously.

You think or you know? You related to Morningstarr?
Quote:
To pick and choose which teachings you wish to follow and which ones you choose to ignore due to inconvience is hypocritical and demonstrates a lack of faith in the bibles "Divine" expression.

How did you arrive at your belief system? Maybe a little of pick and choose? You look a little guilty too or is it only wrong for us, or your interpretation of it in any case?
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 05:23 am
@Pinochet73,
"Yes you can take that attitude, but not towards other human beings, or else you are no better than the ones you so heatedly speak against."

Not really. You're speaking the language of a competing religion -- liberalism. I don't subscribe to TWO religions. I am a Western ecumenical Christian. I don't subscribe to liberalism, or any other religion besides Christianity. So, your ideals, beliefs and values aren't compatible with mine. This idea of someone claiming to be Christian, but at the same time a staunch believer in liberal civic religion, is modern, erroneous and dangerous. Liberals just assume everyone believes thus, which they shouldn't. No, I will NOT fight for the right of anti-Christians to speak their mind. I will fight to throw them out of my society, for the common good. Christianity comes first, last and always. I'm not claiming to be 'better' than my Muslim enemies. I simply insist I am RIGHT, while they are WRONG, and HISTORY provides the evidence.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 07:39 am
@Pinochet73,
History doesn't lie but i'm sure the XMus see it the other way.
0 Replies
 
 

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