0
   

SHEEP: The western condition, or Human condition?

 
 
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 02:21 pm
[CENTER]Sheep

This flock, so naive. How is it they flourish?
They've long traded their hearts and their souls
For Desire, and Greed, and Material goals
They inhibit their feelings, are restrained in their thoughts
Trapped... in their day-in, day-out routines
Only free
In their dreams

Designing their lives and ideals
On the basis and style of the social regime
Concealed beneath their shrouds of projected images
Acquired from those they admire and respect
They hide in their technology, and yearn for immortality
Instead of just living for Fun

Indoctrinated by religion and culture from birth
Herded, like sheep, unaware of their worth
Forgotten... The beauty, of Nature and Trust
Forgotten... Of Love, replaced Her with Lust

They adhere to their Gods, in times of unrest
Ignorant of their hypocritical faith
For, was it not those very same Gods, that they call out to
That caused their miseries
In the first bloody place?

Gone! Has the balance, our ancestors shared
In its place groweth Chaos, War and Despair
On the brink of extinction, with eyes still wide shut
They indulge, in their passion of worth
For them, it will surely feel worse

The answers to questions that haunt them to death
Are plain to see and hear
But they cannot see and cannot hear
For they are content
Are they not?

Cursing, of neighbours, and putting up shelves
Planning their evenings, by what's on TV
Caught-up in themselves
Afraid to be free, Only...Enough!...
Just live, and let live
And just say what you see

------------[/CENTER]

What do you think this verse is saying? To whom does it apply? And, are you anywhere to be found in the verse?

I will be grateful for any and all views on this. It is widely known already, but I'd like the philosopher's view???

Thank you, and be fruitious.
Mark...
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 3,143 • Replies: 29
No top replies

 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 03:20 pm
@mark noble,
If people were not so free to express their individuality in manifold and meaningless terms, they might suffer their likness to all as oppression... We are different... We dress differently... We listen to different music, and walk our own walks... But we are so much off the shelf, mass produced, one like the other that differences though real amount to very little...The problem is not that they are sheep, but that they are demoralized people...
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 03:41 pm
@Fido,
Almost all domesticated species have the same general Sheepish herd mentality. It must be so to have them live en mass and be controlled as they are. People show the same traits to a higher extent. Why would it be surprising that we act like sheep? We are hardwired to do so, it keeps us alive.

---------- Post added 05-17-2010 at 02:41 PM ----------

AND BTW neat poem
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 05:02 pm
@GoshisDead,
The available flock makes naivety available.
The meek shall be forced into debt?
Only free in others dreams.

A soul cannot be sold,
but a life can be bought.
Fashion is regimentation.
Dance of the veils,
Keeping admiration respect (fear) in business.

Why is it so hard to cancel subscriptions?
Herding not flocking.
Nature is the first untrustworthy?
No that would be love.

Why not blame God for my birth,
Instead of Mother.....?

Our ancestors who put us in debt,
taught us how to better beg borrow and steal.
Who teaches thrift any more other than poverty?
Passion for price,
Worth may be free (doms)

Content over indent or intent.
Contentment they forgot first takes preparations work.

Good fences make for good neighbours.
Prefer Hedge-Rows personally.
What is not on T.V?
Caught up in characters flaws and finishes.
And the last will have to admit he is blind.

sometime sun
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 05:09 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble;165422 wrote:

Thank you, and be fruitious.
Mark...



Do you mean, "fruity"? As a matter of fact I have herd sheep. They go, bababa.
mark noble
 
  0  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 09:18 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;165479 wrote:
Do you mean, "fruity"? As a matter of fact I have herd sheep. They go, bababa.


Hi Ken,

Do you mean "Heard"? Or are you confused by the subject matter?

Ignore the principle of the thread, and go for the gesture?... How YOU.

Were you aware that "Mockery" is merely a display of vulnerability?

What's up... Have I submitted more posts than you today, or something?

I would occassionally quite like to discuss subjects with people other than you.

Why are you ever-present? No! don't answer that, I need a break from you.

Thank you Ken, stalk fantastically, sir.

Mark...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 01:48 pm
@mark noble,
Do you hear that Ken??? I don't think he loves your gutz.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 01:52 pm
@Fido,
Fido:
Does Ken have particularly lovable guts?
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 03:06 pm
@mark noble,
This is widely known? I did a search on some of the text and am stumped. By whom?

In answer to the topic's question, I'd say this: Put any group of people in the situation that perpetuates the condition your post describes and they'll become this way. In other words, not western endemically but a set of human reactions/results.

In any case I sympathize with what its saying; only, to me our resultant condition doesn't seem like much of a mystery. As our needs and wants become easier to satisfy, we work less, struggle and achieve less and become indolent. As our entertainments pull us away from the desire to interact more freely and considerately, our sense of community degrades and suddenly those living not 20ft from us are 'foreigners' to be feared or resented.

When our values become about "things", so follows our behavior; traditions, relations, acts of kindness, courtesies, knowledge and wisdom all become superfluous for most in this climate. These are the prices we pay for having so many lives reduced to how much they can produce or consume.

.. or at least that's what I get from it; reflected with what I believe are the most poignant causal influences.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 07:06 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead;165833 wrote:
Fido:
Does Ken have particularly lovable guts?

Not exceptionally so, but he is diligent...
0 Replies
 
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 08:38 pm
@Fido,
Fido;165441 wrote:
.The problem is not that they are sheep, but that they are demoralized people...

Well said! We obsess over petty examples of individuality precisely because we are demoralized. The self-fetish....And I'm still trying to scrape off the goo.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 06:47 am
@Khethil,
Khethil;165853 wrote:
This is widely known? I did a search on some of the text and am stumped. By whom?

In answer to the topic's question, I'd say this: Put any group of people in the situation that perpetuates the condition your post describes and they'll become this way. In other words, not western endemically but a set of human reactions/results.

In any case I sympathize with what its saying; only, to me our resultant condition doesn't seem like much of a mystery. As our needs and wants become easier to satisfy, we work less, struggle and achieve less and become indolent. As our entertainments pull us away from the desire to interact more freely and considerately, our sense of community degrades and suddenly those living not 20ft from us are 'foreigners' to be feared or resented.

When our values become about "things", so follows our behavior; traditions, relations, acts of kindness, courtesies, knowledge and wisdom all become superfluous for most in this climate. These are the prices we pay for having so many lives reduced to how much they can produce or consume.

.. or at least that's what I get from it; reflected with what I believe are the most poignant causal influences.


Hello Kethil,

Well read! Who, or what event, even, do you think, inspired me to write this? It was first published in 2004.

Thank you for taking the time to read it, properly, at that. And have a great day, Sir.

Mark...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 06:58 am
@mark noble,
mark noble;165422 wrote:
[CENTER]Sheep

This flock, so naive. How is it they flourish?
They've long traded their hearts and their souls
For Desire, and Greed, and Material goals
They inhibit their feelings, are restrained in their thoughts
Trapped... in their day-in, day-out routines
Only free
In their dreams

Designing their lives and ideals
On the basis and style of the social regime
Concealed beneath their shrouds of projected images
Acquired from those they admire and respect
They hide in their technology, and yearn for immortality
Instead of just living for Fun

Indoctrinated by religion and culture from birth
Herded, like sheep, unaware of their worth
Forgotten... The beauty, of Nature and Trust
Forgotten... Of Love, replaced Her with Lust

They adhere to their Gods, in times of unrest
Ignorant of their hypocritical faith
For, was it not those very same Gods, that they call out to
That caused their miseries
In the first bloody place?

Gone! Has the balance, our ancestors shared
In its place groweth Chaos, War and Despair
On the brink of extinction, with eyes still wide shut
They indulge, in their passion of worth
For them, it will surely feel worse

The answers to questions that haunt them to death
Are plain to see and hear
But they cannot see and cannot hear
For they are content
Are they not?

Cursing, of neighbours, and putting up shelves
Planning their evenings, by what's on TV
Caught-up in themselves
Afraid to be free, Only...Enough!...
Just live, and let live
And just say what you see

------------[/CENTER]

What do you think this verse is saying? To whom does it apply? And, are you anywhere to be found in the verse?

I will be grateful for any and all views on this. It is widely known already, but I'd like the philosopher's view???

Thank you, and be fruitious.
Mark...



Given for instance, the Japanese and South Korean rigid group social structure and behaviour, why specially Western ? How about western Individualism ? (...even if not that much...)

SHEEP yes, but not specially us...

Best Regards>FILIPE DE ALBUQUERQUE
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 08:12 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;166060 wrote:
Given for instance, the Japanese and South Korean rigid group social structure and behaviour, why specially Western ? How about western Individualism ? (...even if not that much...)

SHEEP yes, but not specially us...

Best Regards>FILIPE DE ALBUQUERQUE


Hi Filipe,

Indeed! Hence "The Flock" is left to the interpretation of the reader.

Thank you for your participation, I am truly grateful. And, have a fantastic day.

Mark...
0 Replies
 
manored
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 09:06 am
@mark noble,
mark noble;165422 wrote:

What do you think this verse is saying? To whom does it apply? And, are you anywhere to be found in the verse?

It is speaking about humans, it applies to humans, And I, being human, am, off course, in these verses.

I think these verses are too negative. Specially then they mention that in the past humans were better. I do not think so, in the past, humans were even worse, so much that they were even less able to see that =)

But I agree that humans are "bound" by several negative ideas that limit their freedom and their ability to be happy. I think philosopy is what freeds one from those chains.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 10:31 am
@manored,
manored;166125 wrote:
It is speaking about humans, it applies to humans, And I, being human, am, off course, in these verses.

I think these verses are too negative. Specially then they mention that in the past humans were better. I do not think so, in the past, humans were even worse, so much that they were even less able to see that =)

But I agree that humans are "bound" by several negative ideas that limit their freedom and their ability to be happy. I think philosopy is what freeds one from those chains.


Hi Manored,

Thank you for reading it. I'll reveal what it is about at a later date. How honest of you to put yourself in the picture, I commend that, as only 1% ever have the guts to do so. And it is widely critiqued.

They are indeed negative, but reflective, nevertheless. It is intended to poignantly provoke the reader's subconscious negative side, after all.

It doesn't catergorize the ancestors as "Better" though, only "balanced".

And I agree with your remark about philosophy.

Thank you Manored, have a fantastic everything, always.

Mark...
0 Replies
 
DrWJK
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 04:08 pm
@Fido,
I like it, as a criticism of the average US Jane and Joe. Except, living for fun is a shallow alternative, and they are not content. They are anxious, and in denial of their anxiety.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 10:06 pm
@manored,
manored;166125 wrote:
It is speaking about humans, it applies to humans, And I, being human, am, off course, in these verses.

I think these verses are too negative. Specially then they mention that in the past humans were better. I do not think so, in the past, humans were even worse, so much that they were even less able to see that =)

But I agree that humans are "bound" by several negative ideas that limit their freedom and their ability to be happy. I think philosopy is what freeds one from those chains.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 10:37 am
@mark noble,
Hi All,

I wrote this verse one evening, an evening that changed my life, forever.

A colleague of mine hanged himself that day. A young lad trying to distance himself from his his drug-dependent past. He left rehab and got a job where I work, met a girl, made some friends...All was well, off the drugs, settling down... Then his manager snapped at him, he took it to heart, went home and killed himself. Nobody mentioned it - nobody cared.

This poem began "Me, so naive. How is it I flourish?
When I finished it, I transferred it into third-party.
It was what I saw, when I looked at me.

So there, that's what inspired it. How similar we are...? Were!

Thank you for reading and thank you for replying.

Have fantastic lives - All of you.

Mark...
manored
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 05:13 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;166292 wrote:
As a generalization obviously we all can fit the picture, but some just fit it perfectly, while others came as far cry...
Indeed, but we all fit it at least one bit, or so I believe =)

Fil. Albuquerque;166292 wrote:
I agree with this.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Poims - Favrits - Discussion by edgarblythe
Poetry Wanted: Seasons of a2k. - Discussion by tsarstepan
Night Blooms - Discussion by qwertyportne
It floated there..... - Discussion by Letty
Allen Ginsberg - Discussion by edgarblythe
"Alone" by Edgar Allan Poe - Discussion by Gouki
I'm looking for a poem by Hughes Mearns - Discussion by unluckystar
Spontaneous Poems - Discussion by edgarblythe
 
  1. Forums
  2. » SHEEP: The western condition, or Human condition?
Copyright © 2017 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 09/24/2017 at 03:12:52