Traditional Ethnic or World Music

That's sheer poetry Samm, or at least that's how it was felt by my saliva glands. But mossioeu, hush puppies with the dish? Puppies are young doggies no? And is all this swallowed without the right amount of diluted and aromated C2H5OH ? And creole, isn't that the Deep South too? Dying for an explanation here.

Yeah, I guess that shoulda been hushpuppies, which you probably know are deep fried cornbready balls with onions. No, you'd be surprised at the number of teetotallers (non-drinkers) in the south, especially at those Church functions. And where you find drinking, here in the land of Jack Daniels (holy be his name), its mostly beer. (But being a non-drinker myself--mostly--I may not have an accurate image of things.) Louisiana is the home state of cajun and creole music and other works of art, culinary and otherwise. All the states from Virginia-Kentucky-Arkansas south are home to various varieties of Deep South Cookin'. I'm a Tennessean who dearly misses the four to six annual family reunion potlucks and singalongs my wider family always used to have when I was young. But the only strong drink we ever had at our reunions was homemade cider and blackberry wine. Creole is fine dining, but I don't know it well.

Samm

if i remember right, creole means the same as arcadian-the people who came from france and settled in canada and for whatever reason (i forgot) moved to the deep south and are centered in louisiana. there is the area they call the french quarter, and the grand festival of mardi gras which you surely must know. louisiana was the only place in america i would have liked to see-i think there must be no place like it on the entire earth, as far as the geography and landscape and culture. mardi gras would be too much for me-but at any other time i would really love to go.

by the way samm, tennessee is truly beautiful. on the way home from fort benning to the great lakes we drove through it-the country in georgia is all dust and red clay and scrub things growing, or trying to. but suddenly, crossing the border into tennessee we re-enter the world. the trees, the mountains, and all that which inspired music and poems in the 'new' world.

I may be wrong but I think there is a difference between cajun and creole. The creole culture is a black French Caribbean culture from the islands like Haiti in the Gulf. The French Canadians to which you referred occupied the Arcadian region of Canada before they were, I think, forced to migrate out of Canada and came eventually to make a new home in Louisiana. It was there that the Arcadians, as they were known, became the ar'cajuns, and finally the cajuns. There's been some 200 odd years of interaction between creoles and cajuns in the wetlands of the Mississippi delta and especially "the Big Easy" as New Orleans is called. And yeah, its a special and unique place without another of its kind in the whole country. I love their dialects as well as their spicey cuisine, and of course their music is as unique as the people themselves.

Samm

so how did black people get to haiti in the first place? i am a little short on history. why did they come to louisiana? and was that where they first mixed with the french culture?

I would have answered that the black people came as slaves from Africa via one route or another, but I defer to this Wikipedia link that will provide more detailed info. (Its more or less accurate but better researched than what I could provide.)

Louisiana Creole people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I hope this helps.

Samm

A potpourri post -- sorry I've been away for a few days.

Salima,

I didn't know about your dialup download problem. Your videos played very well -- thanks. I do agree with you on a "too polished" production of traditional music.

Are you able to download/listen to simple streaming audio without too much frustration? If so, please advise -- I know a few good sites for that.

A SAD TRADITIONAL-STYLE SONG OF THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR

Although this was recently written by Elvis Costello for the movie Cold Mountain, a tragic story set during American Civil War, it done in old-timey traditional style and beautifully sung by Alison Krauss. I'll post the lyrics first, then the link.

The Scarlet Tide

VERSE ONE:
Well I recall his parting words,
Must I accept his fate, or take myself far from this place?
I thought I heard a black bell toll.
A little bird did sing.
Man has no choice when he wants everything.

CHORUS:
We'll rise above The Scarlet Tide
That trickles down through the mountains
And separates the widow from the bride.

VERSE TWO:
Man goes beyond his own decision,
Gets caught up in the mechanism
Of swindlers who act like kings,
And brokers who break everything.
The dark of night was softly fading,
Close to the dawn of day.
Why would I want him, just to lose him again?
REPEAT CHORUS.

YouTube - Alison Krauss - The scarlet tide

SOUTHERN FOOD AND CAJUN SONGS

While searching for Southern traditional-music/bluegrass singer Tim O'Brien's song "Cornbread Nation", I came across:

This Cajun song sung in both French and English by Tim O'Brien and Courtney Granger, nephew of Christine Balfa (daughter of the founder of Cajun band Balfa Toujours?), who is married to Dirk Powell, a close collaborator of Tim's. First lyrics, then link.

Deux Voyages

Ils sont partis du pays pour faire un grande voyage
Ils ont traverse la mer avec juste leur courage
Mas pfres ont laisse tout pour la liberte
Il y avait pas un roi qui pouvait les enchainer

They left their land behind to make a great journey
With nothing but their music, their courage and their names
Our fathers sailed the sea to the west seeking freedom
There never was a king that could keep them in chains

I went back across the sea to find where I came from
To the land of my fathers, to their own little town
Such a beautiful place, I'll never know how they left it
But they gave it up for me and the new life they found

J'ai traverse la mer pour rechercher mon heritage
Dans le pays de mes pfres, leur petit village
Comment ils ont guitte cette belle place,
Je peux pas comprende Ils ont risque tout ils avaient pour leurs decendants

YouTube - French & English - Tim O'Brien - Two Journeys (Deux Voyages)

AND FINALLY, while still searching for Tim O'Brien's "Cornbread Nation", I found this gem:

A little history: Tim O'Brien is a not-very-famous artist, but among American traditional music enthusiasts, he is a god. He is a "traditional purist" and a musician's musician who plays several instruments and sings harmony on many albums by better known artists.

Before producing his album "The Crossing", a hybrid of Irish and American Appalachian traditional music (which was largely based on Irish and Scot music), Tim stayed in Ireland for a considerable time to REALLY learn Irish music. The list of musicians who accompany Tim on "The Crossing" album reads like a "who's who" of some of the finest musicians on both sides of the Atlantic.

Probably due (in part) to the above Irish adventure, I found a video I'd never heard of before -- and this one is a must-see!!

Tim O'Brien, The Chieftans and even some Riverdancers performing the old-timey traditional American Appalachian tune Shady Grove.

YouTube - the chieftains & tim o'brien - shady grove

Oh, and about Southern cooking. I would not recommend trying to make our famous "shoo fly pie" (cane molasses pie). I tried it once. I looked in the oven, everything was fine, dark molasses bubbling in a pie crust. I opened the oven 10 minutes later to find a completely empty pie crust. It took DAYS, not mere hours, to clean all the molasses from every part of that oven.

rebecca

sweet potato pie is fabulous, though! and sweet potato pancakes...

no, i cant watch streaming audio or podcasts or anything like that. maybe some day...
bluegrass is also good, i was going to look for one for this thread, but i think i will go find a nusrat. the problem is they are 25-40 minutes long and most people wont listen to the whole thing. he has done some short ones, but they arent as good-it is like having a six minute quickie. qawwali needs time to build and time for the listener to imbibe and react.

Ooops! My original Georgian Legend vid is apparently no longer available.

HOWEVER, there is still another version of it on Youtube, so I'll link it here and see what happens.

Reminder: The concert group Georgian Legend produced this video to the powerful song "Shatilis Asulo" to specifically give Westerners a "feel" for the Republic of Georgia. GA Legend is one of the rare Georgian concert groups which uses Western instruments. Let's see if this link works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bu9Z4rqH0A

rebecca

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcb1bAM9uss

2. Again by Voces Thules -- Trollaslagur (Troll's Fight?) -- note the parallel 5th's and 4th's in the vocal harmony (that and the "organum" and the "darker" often minor sounds are supposedly indicative of old Norse music)

Trollaslagur

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH9OFHp3Xdkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXXXdf-a6LIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBV5SSbQh5o

2. Final song by Gjallarhorn -- and instrumental "Oravais Minuet" -- although the minuet was a European import, the battle drums and heavy fiddle syle and digeridoo drone give it that Nordic sound, IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8dRY3rhr9c

I'm still just learning about Nordic music, and would appreciate any and all help!

rebecca

Ah Rebecca, that was so wonderful! I dreamt away and I was in Walhalla, where those who fought well sit at the side of Odin, and drink with the gods their heavy mede. I laughed like thunder with Thor and cheered to Freya, who danced with her locks falling on her back like precious gold. But the jokes of Loki nor the songs of Baldur could take my thoughts away from the snake gnawing at the roots of Yggdrasyl, the Tree of the World. And the Norns whispered to me my fate with a sinister voice, unfortunately it was in the norse language. Hey, we had a swedish snow-blossom here for awhile, called Lily. Where could she be? I would love to hear her opinion...

Thanks, Catchy. I, too, appreciate the way music can transport the soul to other realms -- in fact, I rely on that to keep myself going sometimes.

There are days when I head to the Caucasus Mts (Sakartvelo aka The Republic of Georgia, of course), leap onto my small, swift black mountain steed, and ride at full gallop, eastward. I can feel the winds blowing all around me, I can hear my horse's thundering hooves and sense the rhythm of his spirited strides, his long mane stinging my face -- we two become as one. And it's all so vivid in my mind, it's almost real.

My pony and I exit the Caucasus slopes and fly across the Western Russian plains toward the Ural Mts, crossing the autumn gold fields of the Kuban Cossacks, whose magnificent horses still roam freely in open land. (The Kuban Cossacks came from the Trans-Caucasus Region, I've read.)

Finally we reach a cool, shady valley in the Ural foothills, with a small waterfall above a clear flowing stream. Seeing a herd of free-ranging horses nearby, I dismount, unsaddle my pony, and delight in his neighing and whinnying as he gallops away to join his own kind. In that moment, I am overwhelmed by a strong, indescribable feeling -- we both are now truly free.

(A strange thing: when I first imagined this journey, it was only after I dismounted I realized that my black pony was Jolt -- a little sickly black colt Samm and I had rescued 2 or 3 years ago, who unexpectedly developed into a truly magnificent, spirited, proud, delightful, sleek black "steed", with a tiny white star adorning his elegantly shaped forehead, calling attention to his large, intelligent, expressive doe-eyes and his delicate, often-flaring nostrils. His natural athletic movement was poetry in motion.

Jolt's journey through our lives was an all-too-short, strange and wonderful experience. He ended up in the equivalent of an equine "heaven on earth", free roaming with his buddies during the day, and spending his nights in a stall almost as big as our old farmhouse. Jolt found this new home pretty much on his own. Somehow he managed, on the first day of a planned 2-wk training period there, to "bond" with this gentle horsey family, almost as if "he" selected "them". Never try to explain the unexplainable, eh?)

Regarding Lily, when I posted the Nordic stuff I recalled there was a Scandinavian poster when I first joined PF, and I'd hoped she would still be around to help out with Norse traditions. Her name was Lily, you say?

Yoooo Hoooo..... Lily.... Come out, come out, wherever you are! Or else I might end up trying your Nordic "kulning(?)" -- "cattle-calling (?)" -- which, if it really sounds anything like the recordings I've heard, oh boy.... Given my natural vocal abilities (non-existent), my efforts at "kulning" might effect cruel and unusual punishment on all humans and other living creatures within a five-mile radius.

Oops, rambled on too long as usual. Byeeee....

rebecca

Hi Rebecca,

What I have to do is to sit quiet trying to catch the thoughts that come up in me now. There's something special with music and particularly with folk-music (why with folk-music?), while it can be so... and I seem unable to find the right words here (mind I'm not a native english speaker). It can be so revealing, fulfilling, stimulating. It stimulates the imagination, yes, but that sounds so cold and clinical. Music does way more, it is healing, restoring, uplifting, purifying, enlightening. It make us feel as if we've found our right place in the universe again, as if we've found the exit of some labyrinth in which we were lost. It makes us realize that it was good that we were born and that life is wonderful. It makes us truly free and seeing. It remembers us of something that we seem to have forgotten, our world, our soul, our true nature and destiny. It reminds us that happiness exists and that true insight brings us happiness. It also makes us also feel how small and incomplete we are, though being able to grasp what's immensely far beyond us (call it the Divine), Even yesterday I had a wonderful experience while listening to celtic music, it was truly mystical and I cried like hell for a long time. Rebecca, you're a psychology graduate no? I'm totally convinced that (folk) music can be useful as an effective psycho-therapy, just notice what it does to any of us. Ok, let's sing and dance and dream. What about this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbuc9Q95c68&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrkTB2jbDAs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGppxQpqyM&feature=related

. I'll tell about these songs later...

Catchy,

What a beautiful description of music's effect on us -- you have a poetic way with words. Your description reminds me of one explanation behind my beloved Kartvelian and Kuban Cossack music -- these are both peoples who live in two intertwining realms 24/7, and so their music often includes elements of the second realm, a realm of which many of us Westerners are unaware.

The strong effect of music, oh yes. When I'm down and too fatigued to even click on the television remote, I can go over to my music player, listen to the "right" song, and within five minutes I'm alive again -- the neural synapses are firing and I'm a completely different person.

I clearly agree that music could be used in psychology. Unfortunately, the official "music therapy" curriculum, at least in my country, headed towards a direction of a one-size-fits-all new agey or "natural soothing sounds" meditative, pre-programmed form, including those "natural" recordings of whale-noises: "Mwaaaahhhh, Nwhaaooooo". This stuff ends up putting me to sleep, and as far as I am aware, has no studies to support its efficacy. IMO, our modern "music therapy" field needs a complete overhaul!

As for my own psychiatrist (long term manic/depression), I once asked him about packaging aesthetics in pill form, and he sighed that such a step was a long way down the road, though he wished it was possible. Apparently neuropsychiatric studies in the area are ongoing, but with no sound general conclusions that (legitimate) clinicians can use in practice.

He did add, however, that since all he can really offer is band-aid pills for symptoms and syndromes, he encourages his patients to find their own individual non-clinical aids -- and if something works, report it to him. For example, he noted in my case that "being around equines" (our rescue colt) created an obvious significant improvement, and that's one of the reasons we still keep rescue donkeys.

The Lais videos were wonderful, very beautiful, very moving, such a unique sound -- Samm stopped working at his computer just to listen to them. I can't wait to hear about the stories behind them. Since that group is Flemish (?) and I know nothing about your country, I may try to find some images of Flanders on the net -- for me, it sometimes helps to imagine traditional music in relation to its natural environment, though I have no idea why.

As I await the stories behind the Lais videos, I'll leave you with one inspiration for my imaginary horseback ride across the Russian steppes. I chanced upon some Youtube videos and information by a creative Kuban Cossack, a fellow who is part of an active Russian Kuban Cossack community, and who engages in regular horseback border patrols (something the Russian government has recently been commissioning various Cossack communities to do).

It's a Kuban song about riding a horse on the steppes, accompanied by the video-maker's pictures of his own region, including the wild horses which still roam there. First, lyrics, then link.

Across the Great Steppe

I will arrive on the steppe with my horse
We will go in the silent night
We will go with horse together on the? steppe
We will go on the steppe with horse
We will go with horse together on the steppe
We will go on the steppe with horse

In the night there are many stars
Cant see anyone on the steppe
Just me and horse going along the steppe
We just going with horse along the steppe
We just going with horse along the steppe

I will sit on top of the horse
drive me along the steppe
Along my endless steppe
Along my endless steppe

Let me look once
Where the steppe gives birth to the sunrise
Ai the cowberrys' flower, and scarlet sunrise
Is that place there or not?

My steppe is the springs,
Small lights of the far villages,
The golden rye and curly flax
I'm in love with you Russia in love

The year will give the good crops
The bad time was and will pass
Sing for the? golden rye, sing for the curly flax
Sing about how much I'm in love with Russia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egVsn48BonU

sigh....,
rebecca

http://www.huizesintjoanna.be/images/begijnhof3.jpghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPI1ohI_q8&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KTsuxUuuNg

Cheers!

Philippe

there is a science of sound and vibration, and there is real healing with sound. music is one application which is more confusing because of the different effects one piece will have on different people. those soothing sounds would make me crazier than i already am! and catatonic afterwards, no doubt. give me death metal any day! (i am naturally sedated, i need a pick-me-up).

and melon, since you mentioned horses, it is true and documented that having animals around people can be therapeutic-assuming it is an animal they like. i love cats, chipmunks, goats, donkeys...some people like children. go figure!

i always wanted to be able to work in a program using music for autistic children-and maybe adults. i had a particular song in mind in fact:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqjiXYemMlw

---------- Post added 12-06-2009 at 07:54 PM ----------

or if you have time for the full length one, try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qhwvRlGYCQ&feature=related

Melonkali asked me to respond for her this morning. She's creating a music CD for a friend of our daughter, Fay, and refining/completing a DVD of videos for our son, Taylor. We're attending a "Christmas party" with them this Wednesday and its a time-consuming affair that will keep Becky (melonkali) busy. We were very late for our family Thanksgiving dinner because she was busy trying to complete Taylor's DVD then. We hope not to be late for Fay's Christmas party.

She said thanks to Salima for her last post. She hasn't had time yet to listen to Fateh Ali Khan's music video adequately to post a proper response, but she will do that after Wednesday. His music is not my style. Meditatively, I do well to nature sounds or the Buddhist (or Gregorian) chants. Sleepy-bye stuff for most people--but then I'm only half conscious most of the time anyway. I also kick back to Leonard Cohen or John Prine or sometimes to old Moody Blues albums. :-\

Melonkali has been studying this music school in Tblisi (Republic of Georgia), I believe, where they teach kids from 6 to 16 the traditional songs and music and dance of Georgia. In its early days, just after the Soviet Union broke up, it taught this music--which all Georgians know--to kids in orphanages who tended to be wild street kids, endowed with greater fighting skills than ethics (survivors). They found that the music classes, which permitted no observers, only participants, were very effective at teaching the music to the kids. The music is very conducive to participation with well-established parts some of which involve a low drone, and the dances are simple folk dances involving much posturing for men and elegant movement for women. Men also get into highly skilled dancing moves too, like toe dancing (ouch! ohh! ooo!), twirling on their knees, and sword jumping. But the training also helped them change in positive ways and socialize better, abandoning their old survivalist skills and adopting socially acceptable and culturally enhancing attitudes. There's still some question as to how it worked, it's only clear that it did work, it helped the orphans establish perhaps a sense of cultural heritage and belonging that enabled them to overcome some of their sense of abandonment from the losses of their young lives. Melonkali will talk more about it in her own posts later. Anything I have said should be taken as deniable propaganda. :-)

Now, since this is MY (glowing yellow neon sign lights up here saying: Ego! Ego! Ego!) post, I get to submit some music. I like songs that evoke emotional responses. I always cry when I hear the Finnish national anthem, Finlandia. Ooo, the Red Army Chorus can sing the daylights outta that, and they also have a killer version of the "hymn" called "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" (Glory, Glory, Hallelujah!)...except when they get to the verse about the flowers called lillies, they pronounce them lye-lees, but that's a minor distraction. Anyway, I'm just throwing in a coupla non-traditional songs song by the traditional balladist, Jean Redpath, who put out an entire album set of Robert Burns songs sung in their original styles as closely as is known. Some of those'll bring a tear too, don't you know?!

"The Minstrel Show" sung by Jean Redpath
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGSWxtYM7hU

"Sonny's Dream" sung by Jean Redpath
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2y9hTUPBbU

Samm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKONOYRNIfQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LarhaJO36pc

But when it comes to newer music, but still being folk, this ought to be one of the most famous one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJgdrkMtyA0

and this is the psalm we always sings on the last day at school before summer holiday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCtbvTFR6UE&feature=fvsr
But I guess you guys also sing it, but in your language.
P.s never heard of kulning before.:sarcastic:

Hello Lily

Welcome back and thanks for your contribution! For those who read your posting it could be useful to know that the movie "Ronja the robber's daughter" is based on a book by Astrid Lindgren, creator of "Pippi Langstrumpf" and definitely one of Sweden's best known authors. I remember this movie and how "wild" Ronja looked with her thick hair, but also how tender and vulnerable. I thought the movie was good with a truly "medieval" flavour. Too bad the Nobel Committee so rarely gives Prizes to popular authors. I wonder why? Perhaps because they get rich by their bestsellers and don't need the money? Or perhaps you can never be good when the whole world likes you? Same with Tolkien, but that's another story...

As to Cornelis Vreeswijk, he is a dutchman and deceased since quite awhile, now having jam-sessions with Elvis and Janis Joplin. His joyful and challenging voice was that of his generation, the sixties and early seventies in permissive Holland. Everybody who cares for what's true and valuable still remembers his "nozem en de non" here ("the hippie and the nun"). Though it's not really folk I will put it here as a tribute to freedom. It will be obvious what the hippie is teaching to the nun...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_7RpJr-RNU


The last song made me imagine you between all these girls, singing their song of praise to beauty. Do they know how beautiful they are themselves? Yes they know. God is smiling, and the world is a song.
.