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On True Spirituality - A Buddhist View.

 
 
equran
 
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Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 10:34 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Buddhist has very different point of view about the Spiritual things. I have observed them many time on Hindu as well so there is lots of conflict between Hindu religion and Buddhist towards the Spiritual links.
JLNobody
 
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Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2011 10:23 pm
@equran,
What I find most interesting is the Buddha's perspective on ethical activity. It differs radically from that of Christianity. Buddhism's principal focus is on internal experience for the sake of spiritual liberation from illusion. Its core concern is the appreciation of Reality. The life of ethical activity is not designed to acquire virtue for the sake of reward in an afterlife (notwithstanding the pursuit of merit for an improved life after reincarnation--I do not understand this to be at the heart of the Buddha's teachings). Being an ethical person means that one maintains a consciousness free of obstructions to the achievement of enlightenment: an unethical and self-centered mind has no room for the grace of mystical transcendence.
...in this, one's only, life.

igm
 
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Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2011 11:18 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

What I find most interesting is the Buddha's perspective on ethical activity. It differs radically from that of Christianity. Buddhism's principal focus is on internal experience for the sake of spiritual liberation from illusion. Its core concern is the appreciation of Reality. The life of ethical activity is not designed to acquire virtue for the sake of reward in an afterlife (notwithstanding the pursuit of merit for an improved life after reincarnation--I do not understand this to be at the heart of the Buddha's teachings). Being an ethical person means that one maintains a consciousness free of obstructions to the achievement of enlightenment: an unethical and self-centered mind has no room for the grace of mystical transcendence.
...in this, one's only, life.

Are you saying the Buddha attained Enlightenment in one single lifetime?
JLNobody
 
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Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2011 03:43 pm
@igm,
Yes, I must say that because, as I see it, all of us have only one lifetime, except for the transcendent fact that we all are a single Grand lifetime. The Buddha's life is also our life. That's part of the reason we are said to have Buddhamind.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
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Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2011 03:50 pm
@igm,
I prefer to think of my many lifetimes as the many days of my life. In addition, when I die I continue--in a sense--in the existence of everyone else. My ego does not persist because it never did exist; it's an illusion. I might, however, want to consider my true Self to be a soul, but in that case there is only one Soul, which you, I, and everyone else shares.
igm
 
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Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 05:56 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Yes, I must say that because, as I see it, all of us have only one lifetime, except for the transcendent fact that we all are a single Grand lifetime. The Buddha's life is also our life. That's part of the reason we are said to have Buddhamind.

I prefer to think of my many lifetimes as the many days of my life. In addition, when I die I continue--in a sense--in the existence of everyone else. My ego does not persist because it never did exist; it's an illusion. I might, however, want to consider my true Self to be a soul, but in that case there is only one Soul, which you, I, and everyone else shares.

I’m not looking to challenge your replies I’m just interested in understanding your position. Is it only the so called ‘Heart Sutra’ that you follow? If not what other Buddhadharma do you follow (I am referring only to the dharma believed to be the actual dharma spoken and then later written down, given by the historical Buddha (or believed to be) but not the commentaries about those teachings by others or teachings which originate from others?
JLNobody
 
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Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 10:55 am
@igm,
I do not consider the teachings of Siddharta Guatama to be "sacred." Even he supposedly said not to take them at face value but to test them in our experience. I have read and known enlightened people whose sense of Reality is possibly as good as that of the Buddha's. He just started the Process of Buddhism's evolution (on a foundation of Hinduism, against some of which he rebelled of course). But as the Buddha supposedly said: "Be a lantern unto yourself"--maybe with the assistance of many Bodhisattvas some of which are alive. Meditation, not scripture, is that lantern, the best way to access realization of my real nature and that of the world (which, of course, IS me--and you).
I do believe that the Heart Sutra, with its transcendence of dualism, is a great test of one's degree of spiritual growth. It is impossible to understand intellectually (because it is inherently dualistic), but it is a wonderful way to test our intuitive capacity.
Ugh! I'm sounding so New Age.
P.S., I have very much enjoyed your perspective.
igm
 
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Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 12:37 pm
@JLNobody,
Firstly, I’d like to thank you for your reply which has of course led to a few more questions; such is the nature of questions and replies:

One part of the Heart Sutra has been translated as this (of course translations differ this is the one I have):

… form is no other than emptiness… all dharmas are empty they have no characteristics they are unborn and unceasing …

Do you recognise this part of the Heart Sutra in your translation?

If you have a copy of your translation could you reproduce it, in a post so I can read it?

Also:

Can you say what the main difference is, in the life of someone without any realization of their real nature and someone with some realization, and yet another with full realization, are they just different lives (no more than that) and when their lives end are they different in any way at death or after death?
JLNobody
 
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Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 04:25 pm
@igm,
It's very hard to "explain" the Heart Sutra for the reason that, as I said, all verbal explanation is dualistic and the Heart transcends that. But roughly and inadequately--I can't say I understand it thoroughly-- let me suggest that all things are inherently empty (of meaning) and we only see them in terms of the forms (or meanings) that we attach to them (emptiness is form). Things are empty in the sense that there is no such thing (see how constraining language is?) as being; there is only becoming: everything is becoming something else (form is emptiness) . Heraclitis would have been a Buddhist.
But the sutra goes beyond all distinctions. Its mantra says: gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate, bodhi svaha!
Go beyond the other shore not just to the other shore. Go beyond all contrasts or disinctions.
Let me try to copy and send my version of it.
JLNobody
 
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Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 04:30 pm
@JLNobody,
MAHA PRAJNA PARAMITA HEART SUTRAMAHA PRAJNA PARAMITA HEART SUTRAMAHA PRAJNA PARAMITA HEART SUTRAMAHA PRAJNA PARAMITA HEART SUTRAMAHA PRAJNA PARAMITA HEART SUTRA Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva practicing deep Prajna Paramita Clearly saw that all fi ve conditions are empty. Thus was relieved from all suffering and fear. O Shariputra, form is no other than emptiness, emptiness no other than form; Form is exactly emptiness, emptiness exactly form. Sensation, perception, discrimination, awareness are likewise like this. O Shariputra, all dharmas are forms of emptiness, Not born, not destroyed, not tainted, not pure, without gain, without loss; So in emptiness there is no form, no sensation, perception, discrimination, awareness; No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind; No color, sound, smell, taste, touch, phenomena; No realm of sight and so forth until no realm of consciousness. No ignorance, and no extinction of it, and so forth until no old age and death and extinction of them. No suffering, no cause of suffering, no extinguishing, no path, no wisdom and no gain. With nothing to attain, the Bodhisattva lives Prajna Paramita. With no hindrance in the mind, there is no hindrance, therefore no fear exists. Far beyond deluded thoughts, this is Nirvana. All past, present and future Buddhas live Prajna Paramita And therefore , attain Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi! Therefore know, Prajna Paramita is the great mantra, Is the great bright mantra, Is the supreme mantra, Is the unsurpassable mantra. It is capable of relieving all suffering. This is true, not false. So proclaim the Prajna Paramita Mantra, Proclaim this mantra and say: Gate! Gate! Para gate! Parasamgate! Bodhi! Svaha! Prajna Heart Sutra. sunrise sanga version
igm
 
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Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2011 06:18 am
@JLNobody,
Your two posts are very interesting. Your translation is similar to mine and could be said to be ‘equivalent’ but I may be wrong... I’d have to study both for longer.

I notice you didn’t answer my last question i.e. the one after ‘Also:’ in my last post. It could be that you’ve answered it indirectly in your post without referring to it explicitly?

Looking at your text... the words ‘Not born’ are in your translation which means to me that since we were never born (nothing starts) we don’t live (have duration) so that which doesn’t start or have duration (born and live) can’t cease (die) because it never started in the first place (‘Not born’). Do you have any comments on this i.e. any intuitive reply?
JLNobody
 
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Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2011 09:56 am
@igm,
I do not think it is fruitful to attempt to "figure out' the meaning of the Heart Sutra. MEDITATE, but without any gaining attitude. All you need is already in your consciousness; it needs only your lamp light, your choiceless awareness.
I sense that the central phrases of the Sutra are: With nothing to attain, the Bodhisattva lives Prajna Paramita.... Far beyond deluded thoughts, this is Nirvana. MEDITATE (vipassana, sattipathana, shikantaza--equally valid "techniques").
igm
 
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Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2011 10:22 am
@JLNobody,
Thanks for your reply and your perspective which is all ‘Grist for the mill’!
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XXSpadeMasterXX
 
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Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2011 02:09 pm
and what happens, when the world ends one day? ( which it will) where does all this matter that humans are, go? or where will we be at that point? do we all cease from existance forever? are we reborn as something or somewhere else? just curious....
JLNobody
 
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Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 09:25 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
My feeling may not be any consolation for you--ha! you are the most extreme futurist I've ever encountered--but when "the world" finallly "ends", you ask, where does everything go? First of all, since you ARE the world, as am I, the equivalent "you" of so-called Doomsday will just change. The World will just change, like closing my "hand" so that it becomes a "fist". The same occurred before and after the Big Bang. Things just change--as they always do--and "we" change with it because we ARE that. I prefer the concept "change" to "beginning and ending" which refer to hypothetical forms like my use of "hand" and "fist."
This is just my perspective, of course.
igm
 
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Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 09:47 am
@JLNobody,
I think I may of glimpsed impression of your insight in this post... so to speak! Smile
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XXSpadeMasterXX
 
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Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2011 09:11 pm
@JLNobody,
That's too bad, because whether I am right or wrong I DO have consolation for you, my friend...

In what way am I the MOST extreme futurist you have ever encountered??

Just so you know, the above statement reply, was meant for better understandings of your philosophy and or religion...but I guess, my questions to you are unimportant, if one is seeking for truth...thanks anyway...see you around...
JLNobody
 
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Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2011 11:17 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Oh, I regret that you misunderstood me; I was not demeaning your message at all. I was having fun in my reference to your "futurism." That's something I would encourage--a wonderful use of imagination, not a fault at all.
I'm sorry I misunderstood your thread as it applied to me.
Yes, see you around.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
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Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 03:13 pm
@JLNobody,
What exactly did you think I meant??
JLNobody
 
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Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 03:02 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I don't recall now. But does it matter?
0 Replies
 
 

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