djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 04:09 pm
@Robert Hagedorn,
http://rlv.zcache.com/lunatic_faith_nietzsche_tshirt-p235564847084722498trlf_400.jpg
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 04:14 pm
@Robert Hagedorn,
robert, go away.
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 04:21 pm
@chai2,
Now you're being trivial, Chai. You can do better than that.

People often need to give reasons why they want to do good things, like raise money for a charity, or support a college, or fund a new hospital wing, or any of a thousand other things that will cause people to ask them why they're doing that.

You think reporters weren't camped out at Bill Gates' office demanding answers when he announced he was leaving Microsoft to work full-time on his foundation? I have no idea if his reasons were influenced by religious beliefs, but that is beside the point. What I AM sure about is that he had to answer "why" to at least his staff, his board of directors, his friends, and his family.

When I decide I want to donate money or time to a particular cause, you bet I have to justify that to Hubby. Because it affects him, too.

boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 04:36 pm
@Eva,
I don't think that's Chai's question though.

She asked about doing it in someone ele's name, specifically doing good acts in Jesus' name instead of just doing good acts for one's own reasons.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 04:46 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

I don't think that's Chai's question though.

She asked about doing it in someone ele's name, specifically doing good acts in Jesus' name instead of just doing good acts for one's own reasons.


Just so.

Or, for no reason.

What's the difference between doing something good by holding a door open for someone, or donating a million dollars to a cause?

Nothing.

If someone has the extra million to donate, does that make their act more good?
If all you have to give is your hand holding a door open, is that less good?

Life is overwhelmingly made up of the trivial, and it's what we remember.
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 05:26 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

Why do people do something awful or wonderful in the name of something else?

Never got that.

Why not just do something wonderful, or kinda nice, or average, for the sake of doing it?


Then I wrote:
Justification, that's why.


I think I need to clarify. When I answered "Justification," I was answering Chai's first question...why people do things in the name of something else. I never meant to imply there was anything wrong with doing something good just for the sake of doing it. Who would argue against that? I thought it was obvious, but apparently it wasn't.

Nevertheless, there are times when all of us have to give reasons for doing something good, either to answer our own questions or those of others.

And some people are inspired by their faith to do good things. That's okay, isn't it?
0 Replies
 
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 05:55 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

What's the difference between doing something good by holding a door open for someone, or donating a million dollars to a cause?

Nothing.

If someone has the extra million to donate, does that make their act more good?
If all you have to give is your hand holding a door open, is that less good?

Of course not, but don't underestimate the value of that "extra million." As those with money will tell you, they get far more requests than they could ever grant. Just like we do.

Life is overwhelmingly made up of the trivial, and it's what we remember.

We remember the big things, too. Sometimes longer.

I don't believe that trivial gifts are "less good" than expensive gifts. But some gifts ARE bigger than others. To me, it is the value to the giver that determines a gift's value even more than its worth to the recipient. A dollar given by someone who cannot afford it is a bigger gift than a million dollars given by someone looking for a tax write-off.

Using that reasoning, I would say that holding a door open for someone is a lesser gift than a $1 million donation by a philanthropist because holding the door costs you nothing and takes you 5 seconds. Nobody raises $1 million in 5 seconds. That represents a lot of time and energy on someone's part.

chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 06:22 pm
@Eva,
Eva wrote:

chai2 wrote:

What's the difference between doing something good by holding a door open for someone, or donating a million dollars to a cause?

Nothing.

If someone has the extra million to donate, does that make their act more good?
If all you have to give is your hand holding a door open, is that less good?

Of course not, but don't underestimate the value of that "extra million." As those with money will tell you, they get far more requests than they could ever grant. Just like we do.

Just like people praying to God to make requests?
Request prayers...requests for money....does it make it more important if you felt God granted your request, or if you just understand things happen, or not?


Life is overwhelmingly made up of the trivial, and it's what we remember.

We remember the big things, too. Sometimes longer.

I don't believe that trivial gifts are "less good" than expensive gifts. But some gifts ARE bigger than others. To me, it is the value to the giver that determines a gift's value even more than its worth to the recipient. A dollar given by someone who cannot afford it is a bigger gift than a million dollars given by someone looking for a tax write-off.

Using that reasoning, I would say that holding a door open for someone is a lesser gift than a $1 million donation by a philanthropist because holding the door costs you nothing and takes you 5 seconds. Nobody raises $1 million in 5 seconds. That represents a lot of time and energy on someone's part.



What about if holding the door is all you can ever give?



chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 06:28 pm
anyway, getting back to the question of

why do some people say they are doing something in Jesus name?

I suspect so that they get other people to think they are good, perhaps more good than they really are.

that feels wrong.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 06:31 pm
@chai2,
I do believe this is the most civilized thread about religion I've ever seen on A2K.
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 07:15 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

I do believe this is the most civilized thread about religion I've ever seen on A2K.
yeah, I hate it when that happens.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 07:25 pm
@dyslexia,
Way to go, dys. So far as I can tell, he just did.
0 Replies
 
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 08:12 pm
@chai2,
I don't really like how long this is getting, but since I want to reply to both of your comments, I guess I'll keep it going.

chai2 wrote:

Eva wrote:

chai2 wrote:

What's the difference between doing something good by holding a door open for someone, or donating a million dollars to a cause?

Nothing.

If someone has the extra million to donate, does that make their act more good?
If all you have to give is your hand holding a door open, is that less good?

Of course not, but don't underestimate the value of that "extra million." As those with money will tell you, they get far more requests than they could ever grant. Just like we do.

Just like people praying to God to make requests?
Request prayers...requests for money....does it make it more important if you felt God granted your request, or if you just understand things happen, or not?


Everybody understands this a little differently, even within the same faith community. As for me, I tend to think God is involved in virtually everything that happens in my life, whether directly or (more often) indirectly. Sadly, I'm often completely unaware of it. Gotta work on that.

Life is overwhelmingly made up of the trivial, and it's what we remember.

We remember the big things, too. Sometimes longer.

I don't believe that trivial gifts are "less good" than expensive gifts. But some gifts ARE bigger than others. To me, it is the value to the giver that determines a gift's value even more than its worth to the recipient. A dollar given by someone who cannot afford it is a bigger gift than a million dollars given by someone looking for a tax write-off.

Using that reasoning, I would say that holding a door open for someone is a lesser gift than a $1 million donation by a philanthropist because holding the door costs you nothing and takes you 5 seconds. Nobody raises $1 million in 5 seconds. That represents a lot of time and energy on someone's part.



What about if holding the door is all you can ever give?


Then its the biggest gift of all.



0 Replies
 
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 08:16 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

anyway, getting back to the question of

why do some people say they are doing something in Jesus name?

I suspect so that they get other people to think they are good, perhaps more good than they really are.

that feels wrong.


Yeah, some people do that, and yeah, it is wrong.

There are other reasons for doing it, though. Some think of it as a way to give the credit to God for what they are doing. Some think there is special power involved in invoking Jesus' name. And some just do it out of religious habit. Lotsa reasons, really. Probably isn't fair to assume that it's always a bad reason.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 08:23 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
why do some people say they are doing something in Jesus name?

I suspect so that they get other people to think they are good, perhaps more good than they really are.


I can only speak to this question based on the people I know personally. There are some who do things in the name of God or Jesus - not to give themselves any kind of credit, but to give the credit to God or Jesus that they were able to do these things. They seem to want people to know that it is thanks to God/Jesus that they can help.

They're giving props. I may not have the same belief they do, but I do appreciate the humility they are expressing.

Eva
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 08:24 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

chai2 wrote:

I do believe this is the most civilized thread about religion I've ever seen on A2K.
yeah, I hate it when that happens.


Well, yeah, it is pretty rare around here!

Thank you, Chai, for that. I don't post on religion threads as a general rule because it's usually impossible to get past all the name-calling and derision and personal baggage people bring to the subject. I'm not here to convert people, but I'm open to an honest discussion. I've enjoyed this one.
0 Replies
 
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 08:29 pm
@ehBeth,
Yeah, that's what I meant by my first example. But you said it much better. Thanks!
0 Replies
 
 

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