I doubt it's a condoned and organized effort from the church/community/parents
Maybe in some cases. I wonder how much exposure to Evangelical Christian communities you've had, because where I grew up in TX it most definitely was an organized effort.
Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
ehBeth
2
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Wed 26 May, 2010 04:39 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
Do kids learn this at church -- that they should try to get others to believe?
they were telling kids this in church and at homes back in the 1960's when I sampled a couple of Sunday Schools as part of sleep-overs. I think it's much worse in some communities now, and it was ugly then.
Yup, Jesus Camp is a must-see for people who don't think this is really going on.
0 Replies
ehBeth
2
Reply
Wed 26 May, 2010 04:42 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
sozobe wrote:
**** you/ facepunch isn't exactly challenging their ideas though, is it?
It easily slides into a "they're worse than us" narrative.
Direct intervention lets them know that I don't accept their narrative, in a way which logical argumentation never could.
Your response proved their point. You clearly didn't mind proving their belief, so that's not a problem.
**** you/ facepunch isn't exactly challenging their ideas though, is it?
It easily slides into a "they're worse than us" narrative.
Direct intervention lets them know that I don't accept their narrative, in a way which logical argumentation never could.
Your response proved their point. You clearly didn't mind proving their belief, so that's not a problem.
I don't agree with that assessment; it doesn't follow logically. The core of their narrative is not that I am aggressive or lesser, but that I am damned to hell for all eternity based on my lack of belief in their faith. My direct interventions upon them do not confirm that this is true OR prove their point.
Moreso, I also am not concerned in the slightest with what they believe, for their beliefs are immaterial to me. I'm only concerned with their actions.
Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
tsarstepan
2
Reply
Wed 26 May, 2010 04:46 pm
@djjd62,
I haven't seen it but I'm fully aware of this horror/documentary filled with brain washed Christian-pup zombies.
I can attest that this documentary is 100% accurate, in terms of the kinds of kids these groups produce.
Cycloptichorn
My first thought was that your face punch wasn't the best action, then I realize I thought that because I'm not the type to punch someone.
Then when you explained to soz and ehbeth way (they left you alone, which is what they wanted) I tend to agree with your action.
How would you have liked to have grown up with THIS kid?
0 Replies
sozobe
1
Reply
Wed 26 May, 2010 05:45 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
sozobe wrote:
**** you/ facepunch isn't exactly challenging their ideas though, is it?
It easily slides into a "they're worse than us" narrative.
You're already in that narrative. They have already damned you to hell - the worst thing possible, by any estimation. A declaration that because you don't believe the same things they do, you will suffer for all eternity.
That wasn't my experience at all though. I had a lot of frank conversations with people who were fervently religious, and was the cause of at least one severe crisis of faith for a friend. (She didn't think the God she loved and had believed in until then would actually send me to hell just because I didn't believe in Him, when I was otherwise a nice person.)
Being that kind of catalyst has been somewhat unusual in my experience but I have had (and continued to have) plenty of interesting conversations.
Not all religious people are fanatics.
(And some are. I manage to shut those up without saying "**** you" or face-punching them.)
Different experiences for different folks, I guess. I would also suggest that girls are rather less aggressive then boys in this respect, in my experience - not that they believed any less, but that they were less likely to get in one's face about it.
Quote:
(And some are. I manage to shut those up without saying "**** you" or face-punching them.)
I get the feeling during our conversations that you don't always understand what the experience of a young man is like. These are not untoward things in the way you seem to believe they are. Young males get into scuffles and tell each other '**** you' all the time. Like every day.
ANYWAY -- what I was originally saying is that it's a way to cut off communication, not "challenging their ideas" in any meaningful way. Nothing's being challenged, they come away with the same idea they had going in.
ANYWAY -- what I was originally saying is that it's a way to cut off communication, not "challenging their ideas" in any meaningful way. Nothing's being challenged, they come away with the same idea they had going in.
They do that no matter what. The signature characteristic of the Evangelistic child is a persistent belief that they are correct, in the face of any and all logical arguments.
Not only that, but I'm not actually interested in challenging their beliefs in god or in my immortal soul; only their belief that there are no repercussions to them for casually damning others based on idiotic things they've learned from their idiot parents.
I see what you're saying, still not a recommended course of action for Mo.
I think there are ways to deliver these repercussions without being a douche about it.
And yes I understand that the evangelicals we're talking about are being total douche canoes, but my own secular code holds that thou shalt not fight douchebaggery with douchebaggery.
(A douchebag for a douchebag makes the whole world, like, really gross. Think I should start my own religion?)
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Pemerson
1
Reply
Wed 26 May, 2010 08:10 pm
I can't believe this sort of thing happens to kids so young. I must have slipped through the cracks because nobody ever talked about religion when I was growing up. We never talked about it in our family when our kids were growing up. People who went to church talked about it there. We found ways to teach our two boys to love neighbors, do your homework, do your chores, brush your teeth, make your bed, be respectful to other parents and teachers, be independent, true to yourself, bla bla bla bla
But, then, hardly anyone was going to church during the 70's.
When my grandaughter was four she asked us weren't we afraid, not being Catholic. Now, that was a shock! lol
