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A language issue.

 
 
JTT
 
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 12:59 pm
JTT wrote:
Feel free to weigh in with your comments and opinions. I, for one, shall not be commenting upon anyone's replies.

Chumly asked: Would it not be suitable to use "will" not "shall"?

===========================

It would be a possibility, Chumly, so in that sense, yes, it would be suitable.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 946 • Replies: 14
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talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:25 pm
@JTT,
'Shall' has an imperial attitude and was told to refrain from using it in specification writing. Will is basically a prognosis or prediction that thus and thus this WILL follow i.e. based on this theory this WILL follow.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:28 pm
@talk72000,
You were misled, at least partially, Talk72000.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:32 pm
@JTT,
If you know the answer why ask? State your answer.
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:40 pm
@talk72000,
I didn't ask, Talk. I merely pointed out that you were misled.

In a pretend mode, [Stamp your foot and say], "You will not leave this room until I say so!"

Sounds pretty natural, does it not?

'will', in one of its meanings, holds the same nuance, the imperial attitude, as 'shall'.

'shall', in one of its meanings, also holds the prognosis or predictive nuance that 'will' holds.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:46 pm
@JTT,
'Shall' is similar to will is known but the imperial aspect was not known to me until pointed out to me but an English boss. Who knows better than an Englishman on the use of their language. I guess they had many proclamations and edicts passed down from the Crown and 'shall' was probably used a lot instead of 'will' just like 'we are not amused'.

The imperial aspect of 'will' has a lower class feeling to it such as a bully using force. The 'shall' has an upper class feel to it in that you have the option to do otherwise while allowing you to know that the Crown is the superior force and just and legal.
George
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:46 pm
Tar Baby, he don't say nuthin.
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:53 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
Who knows better than an Englishman on the use of their language.


You've been misled again, Talk, this time seriously. Smile

Yes, there are slight register differences between 'shall' and 'will', but not always and every time.

Americans use it too, so the maybe the 'prohibitive' is a better description than the 'imperial'. Wink
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:56 pm
@JTT,
You don't want any answers. You just want to show your brilliance.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:59 pm
@talk72000,
That's unfair, Talk. I love discovering things about all topics and if they come from others, that's fine by me too.

Am I to understand that you disagree with something I said?
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 03:07 pm
@JTT,
By your comment that I had been misled. English is a language shared by many countries. However, you should have said that the American usage is different. The English uasage is different not wrong as implied by your 'misled' comment.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 03:14 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
By your comment that I had been misled.


There's been a misunderstanding, in all probability, my fault.

This,

"Who knows better than an Englishman on the use of their language."

was what my comment referred to. It is true by the way. People of every dialect know their language but they don't know about their language.

Bosses are some of the worst when it comes to passing on nonsense about language.

Quote:
English is a language shared by many countries. However, you should have said that the American usage is different. The English uasage is different not wrong as implied by your 'misled' comment.


I agree completely, 100%, Talk.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 03:28 pm
@JTT,
That is more like it. I may have been hasty about the English boss. Laughing
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 03:29 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
The English uasage is different not wrong as implied by your 'misled' comment.


More misunderstanding, again, on my part.

I might be mistaken but I'm willing to go out on a limb here. I don't believe your boss was completely correct even as regards BrE, Talk.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 03:40 pm
@JTT,
I am only reporting my experience. I am not an English major. Laughing I guess it boiled down to liability. Using of 'shall' meant it as an order thus the firm would be responsible and liable. It implied a fixed attitude as if it was a law. The specifications were meant as a guide not a law.
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