Greece ordered to bag govt. health system

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http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2010/05/14/guess_what_greece_has_to_jettison__98467.html

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Policy Failure: Greece was told that if it wanted a bailout, it needed to consider privatizing its government health care system. So tell us again why the U.S. is following Europe's welfare state model.

The requirement, part of a deal arranged by the IMF, the European Union and the European Central bank, is a tacit admission that national health care programs are unsustainable. Along with transportation and energy, the bailout group, according to the New York Times, wants the Greek government to remove "the state from the marketplace in crucial sectors."

This is not some cranky or politically motivated demand. It is a condition based on the ugly reality of government medicine. The Times reports that economists - not right-wingers opposed to health care who want to blow up Times Square - say liberalizing "the health care industry would help bring down prices in these areas, which are among the highest in Europe."

Of course most of the media have been largely silent about the health care privatization measure for Greece, as it conflicts with their universal, single-payer health care narrative.

The public health system in the Hellenic Republic is operated by the Ministry of Health and Welfare, where centralized decisions and rules are made.

It provides free or low-cost treatment through what is essentially a single-payer system established in 1983 when the Socialist Party was in power. Family members and retirees are also covered. Like the systems in Britain and Canada, it has agonizingly long waiting lists.....

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[+3] - djjd62 - 05/14/2010i live in an supposedly underserviced area medically (in ontario, canada) and i've never had a problem the few times i've had to rely on the medical profession (and neither have friends or...

@gungasnake,

i live in an supposedly underserviced area medically (in ontario, canada) and i've never had a problem the few times i've had to rely on the medical profession (and neither have friends or families)

one of the problem in greece seems to be a lack of willingness to pay taxes, they are apparently the worst country in europe for remitting taxes, can't have government services without some tax money coming in

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This stupid liberal media tag you put on every thread is disingenuous. The only place where people believe this liberal media bullshit is in the minds of the far right repugs who constantly say it. It doesn't exist. Get over it. It doesn't apply to the world, or really anywhere but in your ilk's fantasy.
Dj is right. The greeks have an economy built under the table. With out taxes you can't have any government programs. Not roads, not schools, not health care.
They badly wanted into the EU and are now dragging the entire world down because they didn't clean their own house.

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@djjd62,

The New York Times had an article about this a few days ago. Kind of lecturing Greece on what they needed to do to get back on track (at least that was my take on it -- who are we to tell another country how to run their government?). Anyway, they said one of the first things Greece needed to do was privatize their health care system in order to save money.

They also had recommendations of privatization in transportation and energy, as I recall; mostly it meant they could save a ton of money by laying off lots of civil servants.

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@gungasnake,

Speaking of government welfare systems,

USA ordered to bad the military.

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@djjd62,

Quote:

one of the problem in greece seems to be a lack of willingness to pay taxes, they are apparently the worst country in europe for remitting taxes, can't have government services without some tax money coming in

You might want to open a dictionary and look up the word "incentive" and see if you can think of a reason why the ordinary person living in Greece might have any incentive to want to pay more than he does in taxes for a government health system....

Other than that I hear and read too many horror stories about the British and Canadian systems to believe anybody claiming either to be a good thing.

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and american health care horror stories are ...

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@gungasnake,

Yeh and Greece aint spending 750 million bucks a DAY on some ******* foreign adventures.
Dont worry gunga, your attempt at drawing an analogy wasnt missed. Keep going, you may come up with something one day.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

Yeh and Greece aint spending 750 million bucks a DAY on some ******* foreign adventures.

Not that it's relevant but I agree we have more than one problem here.

George Bush had no good options on 9/12/01. To my own thinking he needed to nuke Mecca and Medina and announce a planetary ban on I-slam, and that is what I'd have done under the circumstances. Letting Saddam Hussein simply skate with supplying the anthrax used by the 9-11 jackers was not an option and the problem with what has actually been done is that, at the end of the day if the plan works better than anybody would predict, all we'll have done is rescue 60,000,000 devil worshipers from political oppression. A happy ending, of course, would have to involve rescue from political oppression AND devil worship...

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

You might want to open a dictionary and look up the word "incentive" and see if you can think of a reason why the ordinary person living in Greece might have any incentive to want to pay more than he does in taxes for a government health system....

maybe they could try paying some

Other than that I hear and read too many horror stories about the British and Canadian systems to believe anybody claiming either to be a good thing.

again, i can only speak from my experience, and it's been positive

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@gungasnake,

Quote:

Letting Saddam Hussein simply skate with supplying the anthrax used by the 9-11 jackers

??

Please provide source for this one--iff'n I remember the day correctly anthrax wasn't the weapon of choice, it was box knives and jet airliners.

Rap

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I keep hoping that one day Gungasnake will disprove my theory that he is a completely ******* worthless waste of brain cells by starting a thread with a reasonable premise that actually makes some kind of sense for some people other than the three yahoos he goes drankin' and shootin' with in his pickup truck every weekend.

Sadly, today is not that day.

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When you think about it...

Seems obvious enough to me that if th emain problem were Greeks not paying enough taxes, the IMF would most likely have ordered the suckers to pay more taxes.

That isn't what happened; the IMF ordered them to bag the govt. health system and obviously views it (the system) as a roadblock to fiscal sanity.

The question is, what goes on in democrats' heads these days?? Have they all gotten to be like Peter Pan's lost boys who refuse to grow up in perpetuity?

1 Reply

@Ceili,

Ceili wrote:

This stupid liberal media tag you put on every thread is disingenuous. The only place where people believe this liberal media bullshit is in the minds of the far right repugs who constantly say it. It doesn't exist. Get over it. It doesn't apply to the world, or really anywhere but in your ilk's fantasy.
Dj is right. The greeks have an economy built under the table. With out taxes you can't have any government programs. Not roads, not schools, not health care.
They badly wanted into the EU and are now dragging the entire world down because they didn't clean their own house.

Actually, you're misinformed. Partially correct by your analysis of the way of life in Greece today, but you seem to be forgetting about the IMF. It's a giant, european version of the corruption of bankers which just crippled the US economy.

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
Yeh and Greece aint spending 750 million bucks a DAY on some ******* foreign adventures.

Not that it's relevant but I agree we have more than one problem here.

George Bush had no good options on 9/12/01. To my own thinking he needed to nuke Mecca and Medina and announce a planetary ban on I-slam, and that is what I'd have done under the circumstances. Letting Saddam Hussein simply skate with supplying the anthrax used by the 9-11 jackers was not an option and the problem with what has actually been done is that, at the end of the day if the plan works better than anybody would predict, all we'll have done is rescue 60,000,000 devil worshipers from political oppression. A happy ending, of course, would have to involve rescue from political oppression AND devil worship...

Islam doesn't worship the devil, George Bush does.

youtbe link of bohemian grove:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2E_HP97Rzc

Anyways, the US were part or wholely responsible for the 9/11 false flag attacks.

Look for the motive, find he who gains the most from an action and you'll soon find the villain.

Anyways, this thread isn't about 9/11.

It's about the fact that I would love to have Canada's health-care system here in U.S. I've never once heard a first hand 'horror story' from a canadian, of whom I know many. Living on the border in detroit will give you a good idea.

The rupert murdoch propaganda machine loves to elicit horror stories.

Here's one from my neck of the woods:

First hand accounts:
Alpena General hospital in Michigan has been accused legitimately and undisputedly of amputating incorrect limbs, or even limbs on the wrong patients. I also know someone whose mother was given the wrong blood in a transfusion, nearly died, she's always sick now.

I doubt this is an isolated incident.

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

When you think about it...

Seems obvious enough to me that if th emain problem were Greeks not paying enough taxes, the IMF would most likely have ordered the suckers to pay more taxes.

That isn't what happened; the IMF ordered them to bag the govt. health system and obviously views it (the system) as a roadblock to fiscal sanity.

The question is, what goes on in democrats' heads these days?? Have they all gotten to be like Peter Pan's lost boys who refuse to grow up in perpetuity?

Since when does the IMF stand as a beacon for fiscal sanity and even morality?

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@CarbonSystem,

To make IMF into a European version of anything, you are going to have to define European very broadly.

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@Ceili,

All of my first hand experiences with the American health care system have been great. Same story from all my friends and family too.

Honest to god.

I guess, for this thread, all that matters are first hand experiences.

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@CarbonSystem,

Not really, I'm well aware of the complexities of banking and so on, but I figured he was looking for a simple answer as per usual and like normal couldn't really be bothered with all the pertinent details.. Blame liberals. Blame, blame, blame.
If I'm wrong on that account, please tell me.
Ta

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@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

I guess, for this thread, all that matters are first hand experiences.

And gunga (or you) had some with the Greek system?
I mean, since ESY, the Greek system, offers free health care not only to every resident in Greece but also to EU-citizens (well, that's the normality in EU-countries) but to any person from most other countries as well you easily could have had the chance to test their health system ...

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