Helping Americans understand just how rich we are

This is only really relevant if you are making an argument against all taxation; otherwise you're just quibbling over rates.

Cycloptichorn

It's also wrong, on at least 2 counts:

1. the US is #8, not #1, in GDP per capita (total GDP divided by population) >
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp_percap-economy-gdp-per-capita
>and 2. comparisons of stocks (ships, houses, other assets) and flows (annual investment income / expense) in different locations are meaningless. GNP is a flow, wealth is a stock.

However, what's actually correct in these posts is that confiscatory tax rates make countries poorer, not richer. This was proven beyond doubt after the collapse of the Soviet Union, where the government "take" of the economy never exceeded 60%: theoretically under communism it would be 100%. In nominally communist China the public sector's "take" is about half of the economy.

It's not the majority of one's labor that is taxed, Robert. There is also a considerable measure of obscene in situations where people become filthy rich using and using up the resources of a country.

I'd settle for just feeding every starving person in the United States and then start working on the rest of the planet.

I find it absolutely outrageous that the richest country in the world is inhabited by some who can't get decent health care, don't have decent food, and die because of it.

And it doesn't matter how popular we may be as a nation or how respected we are around the world, this will always be a blight of the highest order and plenty reason to hang our collective heads in shame.

I heard that 86% of American's don't have passports. I think if more Americans were to see the world, and understand how fortunate we are, they'd understand how petty their complaints are.

T
K
Or maybe not...

So... are you saying the US is poorer since our tax rates went up?

Let's compare 1850 to 1950.. Which tax rate was higher? which country was richer?

Tax rates may do a lot of things, but making a country richer or poorer is hardly supported by any evidence other than anecdotal attempts to ignore other factors.

Why not go back to 50 AD? The Roman Empire was doing fine with high tax rates too. Anyone didn't feel like paying promptly became lion snack, or else an indentured servant of his creditor - for life. You can't compare different societies at vastly different technology levels; that should be obvious.

It's the distribution of wealth that matters. It is not as if everyone gets an equal share of a country's wealth, by a long shot. I can well believe that the poorest US citizens might not consider themselves to be "fortunate".

Fair point. I'm just annoyed that so much of US politics takes place in a vacuum. It's as if there is nothing beyond our borders (except enemies we are supposed to fear).

T
K
O

I understand where you're coming from, Diest.
I just become a little weary of economic arguments (not just in your country, mine & other "wealthy" countries, too) which conveniently argue on the basis of "averages". As if everyone in such countries was comfortably off, when the reality is really quite different. Especially since the recession. There are many people who are living well below the poverty line in such countries. A large percentage of them children.
This is not an argument against compassion & financial support for people in undeveloped countries, it is an argument for a more compassionate attitude to the poor where ever they might be.

Cheers to that mate.

T
K
O

It's astonishing that you actually had to put this into words msolga. I don't think anyone advocates turning a blind eye to other nations in trouble but how about not turning that same blind eye on those in trouble right here.

But don't you think we can do that without protectionism against the even poorer of the world?

We don't need trade protectionism to take care of Americans. That is the whole point I am trying to make. We have more than enough to take care of them without begrudging the Indian call worker or the Mexican field laborer.

It could mean <gasp> raising taxes of the wealthy as a way of distributing a little more money for poor folk to live on, eoe.

Then you'll hear all the tired old arguments about how they (the poor) brought on themselves, how lazy they are, that they should have more incentive, that this will lead to <gasp again> creeping socialism in the USA, etc, etc, etc ...

Every argument under the sun, except acknowledge that a large number of families are living in dire circumstances in a wealthy country in 2010. Many through absolutely no fault of their own.

Before we get to such exalted concepts as compassion, how about not sabotaging their exports to our markets with protective tariffs?

Good idea. How do we justify protectionisn concurrently with foreign aid?

I am talking about the very poorest people in both the "rich" & the undeveloped countries, Thomas.

And I don't consider those "exalted" ideals at all. I am talking about the basic necessities for a reasonable life, with a bit of dignity.

I can't speak with the same authority about the US as I can about my own country, Robert. (Though I do know about the unemployed workers in Detroit, for example .....)

I would have a whole lot more sympathy for the notion of sending work off-shore, a totally free market in labour, IF there had been some genuine prior thought & planning about the impact on unskilled workers in the so-called "wealthy" countries. In my own country, which is small fry in the grand economic global picture, the failure to protect some industries has meant that those (mainly manufacturing) industries have died out completely. While I acknowledge that exporting those (footwear, clothing & various other manufacturing jobs) has been a boon to the poor workers of the countries who were the recipients of those jobs, I can also see that this has created a insignificant number of permanent unemployed, often living at, or below, the poverty line in Australia. Yes, I do know about the arguments about retraining those deployed workers into other employment areas, but that simply has not happened in any real way. The fact is those workers & those dependent on their income, must now accept their significantly disadvantaged lot in life, in a country with a high cost of living. Their predicament has worsened since the global recession.

I also have significant concerns about businesses who send their jobs offshore, to countries like China, Indonesia, Taiwan, etc, with no concern for anything but but the the maximum profit margin. We constantly hear media accounts of exploitation of workers, working conditions that should not be tolerated anywhere, little concern for the environmental impact of production process which would not be tolerated in "advanced" countries ... So yes, there may be significant material improvement in the lives of these workers in the short term, but what about the bigger, long-term implications? That is what I am concerned about.