Philosophy in Second Grade.

Forums: Education, Philosophy, Teaching Philosophical Methods, Junior School
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I say, go kids!!!!!

[quote] A few times each month, second graders at a charter school in Springfield, Mass., take time from math and reading to engage in philosophical debate. There is no mention of Hegel or Descartes, no study of syllogism or solipsism. Instead, Prof. Thomas E. Wartenberg and his undergraduate students from nearby Mount Holyoke College use classic children’s books to raise philosophical questions, which the young students then dissect with the vigor of the ancient Greeks.

“A lot of people try to make philosophy into an elitist discipline,” says Professor Wartenberg, who has been visiting the school, the Martin Luther King Jr. Charter School of Excellence, since 2007. “But everyone is interested in basic philosophical ideas; they’re the most basic questions we have about the world.”...

...He is not the first philosopher to work with children. In the 1970s, Matthew Lipman, then a professor at Columbia University, argued that children could think abstractly at an early age and that philosophical questioning could help them develop reasoning skills. It was the Vietnam era, and Professor Lipman believed that many Americans were too accepting of authoritative answers and slow to reason for themselves " by college, he feared, it would be too late.

Professor Lipman’s view opposed that of the child-development theorist Jean Piaget, who asserted that children under 12 were not capable of abstract reasoning. He and others, including Gareth Matthews, a professor emeritus of philosophy at the University of Massachusetts, concluded that their curiosity and sense of wonder make children ripe for philosophic inquiry.

“The world is new to them and they want to figure things out,” says Professor Matthews, who has written extensively about children and philosophy. “Young children very often engage in reasoning that professional philosophers can recognize as philosophical, but typically their parents or teachers don’t react in a way that encourages them. They might say, ‘That’s cute,’ but they don’t engage the children in thinking further about whatever the issue is.”.....

....Ms. Runquist's students managed to fit philosophy in between writing and science. This was their sixth lesson of the year, and by now they knew the drill: deciding whether or not they agreed with each question; thinking about why or why not; explaining why or why not; and respecting what their classmates said.

Most of the young philosophers had no problem with the boy using the tree’s shade. But they were divided on the apples, which the boy sold, the branches, which he used to build a house, and the trunk, which he carved into a boat.

“It’s only a tree,” Justin said with a shrug.

“The tree has feelings!” Keyshawn replied.

Some reasoned that even if the tree wanted the boy to have its apples and branches, there might be unforeseen consequences.

“If they take the tree’s trunk, um, the tree’s not going to live,” said Nyasia.[/quote]

Full story here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/18/education/edlife/18philosophy-t.html?src=twt&twt=nytimes

I love this stuff...working with kids one often uses a form of Socratic dialogue (common technique of CBT) and it's amazing how some kids can respond.

It'd be great to see more of this, I think...what do you think?

Did you ponder the great questions of life, the universe and everything as a wee kid?

I know I did.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 11 • Views: 3,017 • Replies: 25

Given the abysmal state of most adult's ability to reason in any consistent fashion, I cannot imagine a sane rational man claiming children under 12 not capable of abstract reasoning.

Witness the sate of world affairs ecologically and socially, and then ask yourself whether a group of thoughtful 12 year olds could not do any better.

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This is great, great, great. Kids introduced to thinking. There is hope yet! Give this guy more resources. I say expand the program. Give him all my tax money!

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@dlowan,

I love this! Bet my kid would really enjoy this class. (Hmmm, maybe I can start a philosophy club, or something.)

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@sozobe,

I would have loved it too....I used to ask all kinds of questions my parents thought were dumb, like...if you are like Helen Keller, and have no language (until she did) can you still think?

I used to sneak out and lie on the lawn at night, and lose myself in thinking about infinity.

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actually I was taught such philosophy in 2nd grade, ( I was school in Beirut Lebanon) I still remember the teacher reading us Plato's Allegory of the Cave. We talked about shadows.

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@dyslexia,

Cool!

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"I took a test in existentialism. I left all the answers blank and got 100." (Woody Allen)

Love the concept!

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

"I took a test in existentialism. I left all the answers blank and got 100." (Woody Allen)

Love the concept!

That Woody.

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Yaya and Keetah are definitely capable of abstract reasoning.

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@DrewDad,

Tell us how you know.

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@dlowan,

Daily observation of two small children. It's obvious.

Anyone who doubts that kids under 12 can't reason abstractly need to go have some interactions with kids.

1 Reply

@dlowan,

Two-year olds can imagine a scene that's never happened, and draw a picture about it. If that's not abstract reasoning, what is?

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Two-year olds can imagine a scene that's never happened, and draw a picture about it. If that's not abstract reasoning, what is?

I don't think that's abstract reasoning at all., although I suspect it is a fabulous building block to it!!!

Here's a short definition:

Quote:

Definition:

Abstract Reasoning:

The ability to analyze information and solve problems on a complex, thought-based level. Abstract reasoning tasks involve skills such as:

Forming theories about the nature of objects, ideas, processes, and problem solving;

Understanding subjects on a complex level through analysis and evaluation;

Ability to apply knowledge in problem-solving using theory, metaphor, or complex analogy;

Understanding relationships between verbal and non-verbal ideas.

Abstract problems are often visual and typically do not involve social ideas. Abstract reasoning is usually assessed as part of intelligence testing. Abstract reasoning ability is important because it enables students to apply what they learn in complex ways. Many students with learning disabilities have weaknesses in abstract reasoning and can benefit from direct instruction in problem-solving skills. They may also benefit from language therapy to help them learn to use language to understand and solve problems.

In intelligence quotient (IQ) testing, abstract concepts are considered by some as less biased than language based concepts. However, children who have been exposed to toys that build abstract reasoning skills, such as blocks, tinker toys, geometric toys, or other building and problem solving toys may improve their abstract reasoning abilities.

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@DrewDad,

I agree kids under 12 can do it, more so as they get older....but it generally blossoms the hell after about 12, as very important areas of the brain develop like crazy during puberty.

Since there is great brain plasticity, especially (but, research is more and more discovering, not only) when we are young, I suspect classes like the ones dewscribed in this thread would really help build kids' capacity for that.

It must certainly be supporting the development of reflective capacity, which is enormously important to emotional as well as intellectual development.

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@Chumly,

Chumly wrote:

Given the abysmal state of most adult's ability to reason in any consistent fashion,

I cannot imagine a sane rational man claiming children under 12 not capable of abstract reasoning.

YES! That 's ABSOLUTELY RIGHT !!!
Well said, Chumly!

David

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@dlowan,

It sounds like you're saying that it's only abstract reasoning once it reaches a certain level of complexity. I have to disagree.

Abstract is abstract, whether you're imagining what it'll be like to have a baby sister or whether you're coming up with the theory of relativity. It's just a matter of degree. Like anything, people get better at it with practice.

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@DrewDad,

Although I should know better than to ever provoke The Bunny, I tend to agree with you on this point. Judging by the biographies I've read of the great mathematicians in history, the typical age at which they surpass their math teachers seems to be between eight and ten years. (I think it was Leonard Euler who reinvented nearly the complete body of Euclidian geometry, all by himself, at the age of five). And although your garden-variety nerd is not a genius like Gauss or Euler, she will definitely be able to do math -- not just mere calculating -- by around that age.

Deb, does math qualify as a branch of abstract reasoning for you?

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@DrewDad,

No I'm not. I don't actually know.

I just said I didn't think drawings of places you haven't seen really qualifies.

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@dlowan,

It's more than just the drawing, though. It's the ability to put yourself in a situation where you've never been before. To see in your minds-eye what it might be like. The ability to translate that to a picture is just mechanics; the initial jump from "this is me and I am here" to "this could be me in another place with these other people" is the abstract part.

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Philosophy in Second Grade.

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