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EUGENICS: PRO or CON ?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 09:52 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Your trying to trrat this like another DAvid "mind fart", delivered in a brief bumper sticker of "insight". if you remove entire generations who carry the alleles for Tay Sachs or Sickling, you would, by nature, have removed Miles DAvis and Itzach Perlman from the gene pool already. This is really a slippery slope that discussing on a chat line by we who have neither experience nor ideas of what and how the processes would be meted out or administered, what would be the directive of "genetic improvement" (would we remove single alleles ?) how would you read future conditions because a fetus carries an allele for, say, diabetes or pancreatic cancer.
Life is merely a minor remission from disease.

How would you select the desired progeny for say, talent or intelligence, would all reproduction no longer involve sex and would, instead be insertion of gene splices? WIth sexual diversity determining genetic outcomes, and the outcomes almost limitless, Id like to know how this would NOT involve genetic engineering in a govt or at lest some kind of institutional lab. DO YOU?
I address the topic from a layman 's perspective,
hoping for optimal results after experimentation in an environment of freedom,
by expert professionals in the area.

I 'd like government, ideally, to stay out of it except for financial subsidies.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 09:55 pm

Farmer, I don 't believe that we shoud all just forget about genetics
and eugenics, dismissing them out-of-hand,
saying that thay r too hard.
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 02:19 am
@OmSigDAVID,
It's one thing not to forget about something, but it's another to obsessively pursue a subject- this is about the third thread you've posted on eugenics or other ancillary facets of the subject.

I know there's another thread authored by you on which I answered con to this same question. I'm going to answer that I am against eugenics again because I think it's important that thinking people continue to reject the idea of this concept.

And not to be unkind David, but it makes me wonder if you suffer from feelings of lack of control...why are you so interested in not only controlling your own life, but essentially creating a society in which even the very existence of other people is controlled and to your liking?

I, for one, don't want to live in a vanilla, blond haired and blue-eyed world where everyone 'bred' is assured of their superior brains and beauty and genetic heritage. How boring!

And for someone who considers himself to be libertarian - how hypocritical. Are your libertarian views only extended to yourself?

It's so interesting to me that you live in one of the most diverse boroughs of one of the most diverse cities in the world (by choice you say) yet you're constantly advocating for a planned, genetic homogenous uniformity in people.

I've asked you this before, but I'll ask you again - why don't you just move thirty or forty miles up I95 to Connecticut? It sound like Greenwich would suit you just fine.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 03:30 am
@aidan,
Your post (falsely) implies that I 'd said that
future eugencic improvements had to conform to MY taste
.

aidan wrote:
It's one thing not to forget about something, but it's another to obsessively pursue a subject-
this is about the third thread you've posted on eugenics or other
ancillary facets of the subject.
Yesterday, I saw that I told the farmer, on another thread,
that I 'd start a thread on eugenics, for an independent discussion,
and then I failed to execute that promise; so now, I did.



aidan wrote:
I know there's another thread authored by you on which
I answered con to this same question.
sounds familiar



aidan wrote:
I'm going to answer that I am against eugenics again because
I think it's important that thinking people continue to reject the idea of this concept.
U don't wish to elucidate?


aidan wrote:
And not to be unkind David, but it makes me wonder if you suffer from feelings of lack of control...
why are you so interested in not only controlling your own life,
but essentially creating a society in which even the very
existence of other people is controlled and to your liking?
My control is about average. If I coud improve control, that 'd be good (not controlling other people).
I want other people to be able to design their progeny, to taste.
To THEIR individual taste, not mine; I 'd be nowhere around when thay choose.





aidan wrote:
I, for one, don't want to live in a vanilla, blond haired and blue-eyed world where everyone
'bred' is assured of their superior brains and beauty and genetic heritage. How boring!
Then, with the power of future eugenics,
u can craft your progeny according to your own preference.
Future eugenics can provide versatility.
I wish I had 3 hearts, in case one of them got a heart attack.



aidan wrote:
And for someone who considers himself to be libertarian - how hypocritical.
I don't post anything in which I don't believe;
waste of time n effort. U misunderstood me,
and then attributed your errors of perception to ME and blame me for them.



aidan wrote:
Are your libertarian views only extended to yourself?
No. Your post implies that I had a LOCK on future breeding n that
it coud proceed only acccording to my designated pattern.
Eugenics puts the power of choice in the hands of the future parents.
Maybe thay 'll program him to get a 3rd set of teeth.
The future is unlimited.
I did not indicate limitations. I am not a king, to enforce my will.
I did not even think of that; it was your idea.




aidan wrote:
It's so interesting to me that you live in one of the most diverse boroughs
of one of the most diverse cities in the world (by choice you say)
I am not nailed down,
but I do own real estate here



aidan wrote:
yet you're constantly advocating for a planned, genetic homogenous uniformity in people.
I said nothing about any uniformity.
In planning, future parents can maybe choose 3 different kinds
of kids, according to their preference.
Ideally, as I indicated already, the kid himself will be able
to change whatever he wants after the fact
, like a cameleon. He shoud be autonomous.



aidan wrote:
I've asked you this before, but I'll ask you again - why don't you
just move thirty or forty miles up I95 to Connecticut?
It sound like Greenwich would suit you just fine.
I dunno. I 've never been there. Maybe I 'll check. Thanx for the advice.
Philis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 03:48 am
Craziness...........they might put you om sig out of the gene pool.
Sarcasm here......OH, yes, everything starts out on a "good" note and is taken over by the military. OH, yes, mankind can make excellent decisions on what to control and what not to control.NOT! Shocked
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 03:54 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Your post (falsely) implies that I 'd said that future eugencic improvements had to conform to MY taste.


Yes, it does. And I apologize for that. I admit I misunderstood and/or misinterpreted your concept of eugenic 'choice' in terms of allowing everyone their own special variety and that focus for this thread in that regard.

Quote:
No. Your post implies that I had a LOCK on future breeding n that
it coud proceed only acccording to my designated pattern.
Eugenics puts the power of choice in the hands of the future parents.
Maybe thay 'll program him to get a 3rd set of teeth.
The future is unlimited.
I did not indicate limitations. I am not a king, to enforce my will.
I did not even think of that; it was your idea.

Again, I apologize- but you have to allow that most people who are in favor of eugenics are in fact in favor of it because they want to create a more uniform populace which conforms to certain set standards.
That's where the misunderstanding arose. I didn't read that you were advocating individual choice in this thread to the extent that you have explained it to me now. Now I do understand.

Quote:
I dunno. I 've never been there. Maybe I 'll check. Thanx for the advice.

I don't think you'd like it. Ethel Kennedy's family has a house there.
Laughing Laughing

So then now that I know the parameters, no- I'd not engage in eugenics to produce designer progeny. And I wonder about people who do/would. I have to admit that sort of creeps me out and makes me think they are shallow and controlling and maybe shouldn't really have kids.

I'm pro adoption for goodness sakes! I don't even have to have the kid have my OWN genes- much less my own specially chosen genes.

And I know I couldn't have created with my own imagination or design children more beautiful than the ones I see created through pure random chance all around me every where I go every day.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 05:23 am

I will add the fact that if this technology were available,
as I 'm sure it will in the fullness of time
(and as it has been for 1000s of years, the old way),
I woud not use it BECAUSE I HAVE NO WISH TO HAVE CHILDREN,
except maybe clones of myself for spare parts.

However, I 'd be pleased to see my fellow citizens
successfully producing better n better children.





David
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 05:29 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I 'd like government, ideally, to stay out of it except for financial subsidies.
Because, selection FOR a "designer trait" couldnt be an outpatient procedure, I dont know how you could do this. I think that your ideas are benign but that the actual process could be toxic to life.
So I repeat my concerns and my cautions

IFD , say, some geneticist comes up witha way to enhance the (eg)PAX gene by removing all SNP possibilities(single nucleotide polymorphs) , then maybe they could sell "kits" to do this, I dont know.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 05:33 am
@farmerman,
Kits coud be handy.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 06:09 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:
I don't think you'd like it. Ethel Kennedy's family has a house there.
Laughing Laughing
My only differences with the Kennedys were ideological.
As a libertarian Individualist,
I 've gotten along well socially with commies and nazis who were amiable n polite.




aidan wrote:
And I know I couldn't have created with my own imagination or design children
more beautiful than the ones I see created through pure random chance all around me every where I go every day.
Well, I was not satisfied with how well I turned out.
If I had been able to re-design myself, I 'd have done it.
I wish that I had been designed better in several respects.
My foes on this board will agree.
I cannot blame my parents because the eugenic possibilities of the future
did not exist in time to be of use for my benefit,
but if children of the future are NOT granted those available benefits
thay may severely resent it, challenging their parents' negligence
for failing to help them out prospectively, and condemning them for the advent
of preventable diseases, if such there be.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2010 06:40 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
...Life is merely a minor remission from disease....


This cannot be quoted enough.
0 Replies
 
 

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