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New Challenge To Primordial Soup Theory

 
 
littlek
 
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 04:49 pm
The primordial soup theory which describes early earth and the pre-stages to life here, has caught some slack since it was envisioned almost 100 years ago. Now a new theory has sprung up from deep sea vents where super hot, chemical rich waters jet into the water above the seafloor. Life exists there without reasonable temperatures, oxygen and sunlight.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123447937
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 05:12 pm
@littlek,
I'm not sure I understand the argument against the Primordial Soup:

Nick Lane, as quoted by NPR wrote:
"[J.B.S Haldane]proposed that the Earth's early atmosphere was composed of simple gases like methane and ammonia. And they would react together under the influence of ultraviolet rays or lightning to produce a thin 'soup' " which became thicker over time " of organic molecules," Lane says.

Those molecules formed amino acids, so the theory goes, which are the building blocks of the proteins from which all life has evolved.

But, Lane says, it turns out that the planet's early atmosphere might not have contained much methane or ammonia after all.

Well, what gases did the planet's early atmosphere contain, and what substances would they have produced if exposed to ultraviolet light, cosmic radiation, and lightning? Why wouldn't the actual mixture of gases have produced amino acids and other building blocks of organic life?

I also don't understand how Lane's theory provides an alternative to the "Primeval soup" story.

NPR wrote:
Instead of atmospheric gases and lightning, Lane's team proposes that deep-sea, alkaline hydrothermal vents powered life's predecessors.

At these vents, warm fluids percolate up through the ocean floor. When they react to ocean water, they form tiny, inorganic cells. Lane says these cells produce energy the same way that living cells do today: by harnessing chemical gradients across a membrane. [...]

"We think that the first cells could not have left these vents unless they'd found a way of tapping into these gradients that were naturally existing there, and then later on learning to generate their own."

I wonder how DNA, or some other genetic replicator, would emerge in Lane's theory? I don't see how, and Lane apparently isn't saying.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 05:36 pm
Life doesn't come into either theory. Neither explain how life began, just how amino acids formed. Er... I think.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 08:15 pm
@littlek,
littlek wrote:
Neither explain how life began, just how amino acids formed

Mmmkay ... so how do amino acids form in Lane's theory? I don't get it.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 10:13 pm
@littlek,
I just read the article again, paying close attention to what it seeks to explain and how it explains it. As I understand what I've read, the beginning of life is very much the question. Here is how the article starts:

NPR wrote:
Is the "primordial soup" theory " the idea that life emerged from a prebiotic broth " past its expiration date? (emphasis added -- T.)

NPR answers this question as follows:

NPR wrote:
Lane's team proposes that deep-sea, alkaline hydrothermal vents powered life's predecessors.

But what do the vents power the predecessors to do? And how does Lane suggest life emerged from these inorganic predecessor cells? Sure, it's nice for life to have cells. But there's nothing in Lane's cells because he leapfrogs over two entire levels of organization. First, he bypasses amino acids, nucleotides, and all that. Second, he bypasses proteins and viruses. It's cells from the very beginning. That would be fine if Lane then explained how these lower levels of organization emerge from inorganic cells with energy. But he doesn't. I'm sure these inorganic cells are fascinating objects to study in their own right. But I can't see their connection with life that this article suggests.

This is quite possibly my fault. I'm not arguing with you -- just trying to figure out how this theory works.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 06:45 pm
@littlek,
I thought the Black-Smoker chemical vents at the floor of the ocean have been a theoretical starting point for life for some time now.

Anyway, Lane's "proton movement" theory still seems a bit speculative at this point to me. Granted all theories of this type are speculative, but I'm not feelin the love for his theory just yet.
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