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EVERYTHING ABOUT GOLD

 
 
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 04:42 am
Im reasonably experienced in finding it in the "wild" but, the entire scope of golds history, its uniqueness, properties, and value are open for discussion herein.
Ill start

WHen we buy, hold, and realize profits from golds appreciation, remember that gold is not considered an "investment", Its a collectible, so, in the US, its appreciation is taxed at a higher rate than mere capital gains.
Thats something all the gold hawkers would rather we not be aware of.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 5 • Views: 8,090 • Replies: 47
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roger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 04:55 am
@farmerman,
As a matter of fact, I was completely unaware of this. In fact, it's something I had never considered.

You know, I wouldn't mind being taxed on an increase in value (at capital gains rate), but I do kind of resent being taxed on gains that result from nothing more than inflation.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 05:02 am
@roger,
Pisser aint it? I looked into having a "self directed " IRA, a bunch of years ago and the entire concept of the inflated tax rates for "collectibles" just got me pissed off.

HAVE any gold nuggets from the NM Hills Roger? I used to scout around the area of volcanics in the (New Mexico) Morrison Formation when I was prospecting with my Uncle Stash as a kid. That was a glorious time , and I found gold nuggets. Most of which I still have.

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 05:23 am
@farmerman,
One of the most frequently used means of recovering gold from its rock is to crush it into very small chunks and then leach the rock using cyanide and lime. The gold goes into solution as a cyanate and this is easily reclaimed . This method , although cheap, is not able to recover over half the remaining gold without further grinding.
Ive been to the cripple creek area where they are still mining using "heap leaching" and the entire half of the mountain sm,ells like cyanide.

The earth has an estimated 85000 tons of gold and eve already mined about half of that.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 05:55 am
@farmerman,
Taxes on gold coins sold between private parties?

Somehow that seem unlikely.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 06:00 am
@BillRM,
Im not familiar with private sales, but, if youre a dealer or an investor whose bought gold at x and sold it at x++ per oz, the tax on that appreciation is the same as any other collectible, 28%.

If you buy some gold from a "friend" and hold it, remember, you must establish your purchase price when you sell. SOONER or later, someone 's gonna get fucked by doing under the table transactions (unless, of course, youve figured out a way for friends to keep buying and selling their gold to each other to avoid the taxes on appreciation)
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 06:31 am
@farmerman,
Sorry when you buy gold coins in my state no ID is needed to be shown to the dealer only when you sell gold to a dealer do you need to give ID and a finger print of all things. This go to the local police department as a anti-crime measure not as a tax measure. I never hear of anyone being question by the tax man concerning such sales as the state does not care about helping the Feds out and the feds had more important things to do with their manpower then to dig into small gold coins transactions.

If you do buy gold from a dealer and then turn around and sell the coins to a friend or on the private market there is little records for the evil tax man to find.

In fact it is rumor that not all gold dealers follow the finger print law either and not all states had such laws so a car trip can solve any such possible problems if you are worry about it and need for some reason to sell to coin sdealer.

Gold is gold
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 06:36 am
@farmerman,
How do they estimate how many tons of gold the Earth has?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 06:40 am
@BillRM,
If you invest in gold, and you want to sell your gold, you are responsible to pay a tax on its appreciation. (You dont buy stocks under the table do you?). Im not interested in how you "getaway" from the evil tax man cause if youre dealing in nickels and dimes, Im sure you can easily get away with it. However, should a transaction approach the 10000 $ magic number or some daily transaction value, you have thew responsibility to report. WHether you do or not is up to you. Just remember, if the evil tax man suspects that youre trying to **** Uncle Sam, there is no STASHU of LIMITATIONS in a case of suspected tax fraud.

Go forth, with this knowledge, what you do with it is certainly none of my business. However, such bulletin board admissions that youve just made may not be subject to any rules of privacy .


ANYWAY, I did not know that gold marketing and valuation were allowed to be set by any state. I always thought that it was a FEd thing.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 06:52 am
@rosborne979,
Its not rocket science but the worlds gold comes from 3 sources placer, veins, and within the lattices of copper minerals. SO the estimates have been based upon field estimates based on the geology and frequency of known deposits (like Wittwatersrand or Klondike or Kamchatka) and then projected to areas not yet explored. Its a very crude number and can be off by 100% but probably not 3 orders of magnitude.
The amount found in copper is responsible for over 1/4 of the amount already produced, thus Cu lattiv=ce gold is the really big unknown because we dont know how much copper lies within the plastic mantle.

A more crude method is done by projecting ahead the amount of gold that the biggest miners are producing. This is a "needs" based reserve calculation. It assumes that we will learn to free up gold from deposits now considered unmineable, like the sea.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 07:19 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Its not rocket science but the worlds gold comes from 3 sources placer, veins, and within the lattices of copper minerals.

Oh, you're talking about the relative abundance of gold in the crust of the Earth, not it's entire composition.

I've read, and it seems logical, that the core of the earth probably contains most of the gold that comprises the planet's basic elements. Since gold is more dense than iron, then in a fluid form (such as the interior of the planet) it would naturally accumulate near the bottom of the gravity well with the heavier stable elements below it (not sure what those would be?) and the lighter nickel/iron above it.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 07:24 am
I have looked everywhere I can think of for gold and the only thing I found was two rings and a pair of cuff-links in my sock drawer.

Joe(do I need to buy a shovel?)Nation
0 Replies
 
alex240101
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 07:32 am
"Everything" about gold.
In towns around me, "We buy Gold" shops are popping up everywhere.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 08:12 am

I'll keep my eyes open for one of these.

The welcome stranger Nugget was found by John Deason and Richard Oates, on Friday, February 5, 1869 near Dunnolly Victoria Australia
It is supposedly the largest nugget ever found
gross weight prior to smelting was two hundred and ten pounds troy After smelting 2268oz. 10dwts. 14grs. of solid gold. in addition to this the finders had given away "at least a pound" to friends.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 08:49 am
@farmerman,
Farmenman if you are in the wholesale gold business that one thing if you are a normal person with say 15 ozs to 20 ozs of gold coins or even 30 ozs hold over a few years as a small part of your total savings that is so far below anyone radar screen that it is silly to even talk about taxes.

At that level it is all cash and carry beside so the big house is not waiting for such evil people that does not declare their profits.

If you wish to place larger bet on the gold market and do not wish to pay the higher taxes just invest in a company/firm that own gold miners for example.

The way Americans legally got around the ban on even owning gold in the good old days.

Gold futures is another means and so on.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:11 am
@farmerman,
Go forth, with this knowledge, what you do with it is certainly none of my business. However, such bulletin board admissions that youve just made may not be subject to any rules of privacy .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL did I state that I personally broken the law my friend? Off hand I do not think so.

Number two the only gold I had in my home at the moment is my wedding band and my class ring and Uncle Sam can feel free to look all he wish to.

Number three that I live in the Miami area and my name is Bill middle R last M SO good luck in finding me and hint the ISP used to access this system can not be connected in any way with myself and all my computers are protected with AES truecrypt protection on all hard drives.

And so on.




farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:13 am
@BillRM,
gold mining "Stocks" are not gold. These are subject to the rules of cap gains. However, gold stocks dont only measure the value of the commodity but of the company mining them. There are several mining stocks that are real dogs.

A few gold coins (if they come under the minimum daily or aggregate value rules) can probably be dealt with just like a waitress can get away with underreporting tips (but just so far).

However, if you buy gold coins from a reputable dealer, you will be recorded as a purchaser, and the rules (to return to my original point) that apply to collecribles , apply.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:24 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Number two the only gold I had in my home at the moment is my wedding band
So ypour advice is based upon your lack of any experience eh?

As far as anything else, notice I said that "MAy" not guarantee your privacy .

Im not giving any advice, this is a thread about gold, not your pwersonal tax position. The tax rule about appreciation of gold specie is NOT like stocks and bonds, its like any other collectible. Which, if you recognize a value increase of some number (its probably in the tax code) you have a liability to report.

If you attempt to "cash in" your gold at a bank, and this is cashed in at a rate greater than (it used to be 1000 a day) the bank, because it keeps records, will notify the IRS itself, if your transactions accumulate over a single tax year. SO, your really not gonna live the high life on a year where you cash in say 10000 dollars worth of appreciation at , say again, 10 transactions of 1000 each.
The transactions arent really worth the bother .


farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:33 am
Bill seems to be worrying about finding flyshit in pepper, so let me get back to gold.

Gold and Copper were the two metals first found and played with. Both are of the few metals that are found in a "native" (almost pure ) state. Gold Silver and copper are the top three and Gold and copper are mutually soluble within each other. So, the compound we call "electrum" is a solid solution metal of gold and copper found in nature. Most of the ancient artifacts of egypt and South AMerica and China are of the electrum variety. In the case of sil;ver, we did not loearn how to extract the small amount of gold from silver until the early 20th century. SO, artifacts reportedly made of colonial silver , if really pure, are probably fakes. PAul Revers silver had about 10% gold in the alloy and the silver has a faintly golden tinge.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:36 am
@farmerman,
However, if you buy gold coins from a reputable dealer, you will be recorded as a purchaser, and the rules (to return to my original point) that apply to collecribles , apply.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry not true at least in the Miami/Florida area.

You can buy gold coins the same way you can buy anything else and if you wish to hand the man cash and take your coins and walk out of his store he could not care less anymore then if you buy some milk at the 7/11. No ID needed.

I am not even sure if the Feds had close the loop hold for coins dealers that they had for car dealers where the car dealers now like the banks need to report the purchase of any car over a given amount. But that is 10,000 or more on one purchase assuming it apply.

The selling of coins to dealers does come under the same law as selling any high value item to a pawn shop and you need to both show ID and give a thumb print.

The local and state government is not working for the Feds and the above laws is only design to slow down fencing of stolen goods at coin dealers an or pawn shops.
 

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