5
   

EVERYTHING ABOUT GOLD

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:42 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
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Sorry not true at least in the Miami/Florida area.


So the dealeres in MIami are either

1 taking a huge hit on the gold they transfer or

2They are selling "HOT" gold


Doesnt really matter what part of the countrry a business is in (unless its totally offshore). The dealer must establish the basis for which his profit is established, If he keeps business records, he is recording his gold as "Inventory" . ASo, if he buys gold at 800 for a 94/A 1oz coin, and he sells it for 1000$, you mean that he is IGNORING his original cash basis of his profit?

I suppose anyone can get away with anything for a while, Bernie MAdoff was an example of this. Good luck.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:55 am
@farmerman,
If you attempt to "cash in" your gold at a bank, and this is cashed in at a rate greater than (it used to be 1000 a day) the bank, because it keeps records, will notify the IRS itself, if your transactions accumulate over a single tax year. SO, your really not gonna live the high life on a year where you cash in say 10000 dollars worth of appreciation at , say again, 10 transactions of 1000 each.
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I never even hear of cashing gold coins in at banks!!!!!!!!!! I may be wrong but the last time anyone cash in gold coins at an American bank was in 1929 or so.

If you mean money laundering the cash from selling gold coins let me point out that the regional FED branch located within biking distance of me take in more cash then all the other regional branches combine due to the fact that a few billion dollars of drug earning every year is somehow being turn from cash into bank accounts.

The banks and their reporting/record keeping to the Fed does not seem to be working too well.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:58 am
@farmerman,
I am sure that the business keep a record of selling x amount of gold coins at x amount just like 7/11 keep a record of selling x gallons of milk at x price but in neither case is the buyer ID needed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 10:10 am
@BillRM,
selling milk is slightly different from selling gold. CAn you see the difference? They are both inventory items but one is a consum,able and the other has appreciating value. CAn you guess which is which?

Selling gold is more like selling stocks , not milk. AND, if you buy enough to hold and sell, thats what Im talking about.
In 1955 100 Maple leaves would sell for 3500$, today, the same number of coins are worth 100000 $. SOmebody should be accounting for the 96500$ in appreciated value. I dont like the tax liability either, but under normal situations , had the vehicle been a stock, the tax liability would be considered capital gains. In the matter of gold, its considered a collectible and its value increase is taxable at normal income.



BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 10:21 am
@farmerman,
Lord it is not the same as milk however like milk when you go into a coin shop to buy a coin or two or ten your ID is not recorded as a matter of law or as routine.

You can pay cash and walk out with the coins if you care to do so.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 10:40 am
@BillRM,
Chances are Bill, that you go to a coin shop, youre already paying RETAIL and not investment prices for gold coins. Numithsmatic value for ceratin gold coins outweighs the value of gold. However, if you buy 10 1 oz gold coins at investment grade s, you will be tagged by the store. They have to record for thwir own tax profile.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 11:43 am
@farmerman,
Sorry but that not how it work farmerman.

The Mexico 50 peso and the Kruggerrand for example are sold by that day gold price plus a added few percents for the store profit.

Such coins had zero numithsmatic value and are design just as a easy way to sell a fix amount of gold.

That how you invested in gold by buying such gold coins not by buying coins with other values to them.

In fact the worth of these coins are often listed right by the gold price in the paper. The average mark up does change slightly as it tend to be somewhat higher when gold price are increasing and somewhat lower when gold prices are falling.

It the same as buying so call junk silver coins IE coins that have no numithsmatic value but happen to contain a known amount of silver.

I can see you never had purchase gold coins in your life.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 11:53 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Such coins had zero numithsmatic value and are design just as a easy way to sell a fix amount of gold
Thats basically what I said.


Quote:
That how you invested in gold by buying such gold coins not by buying coins with other values to them.
NOW you seem to be going around in a circle. Thats what I said up front. IF you invest in gold by its market value you have a TAX LIABILITY when you cash it in and realize the profit, Now there should be nothing difficult in that except youve been inserting the"sales between individuals" as a kind of diversion. If you would have stuck to the original point we wouldnt be all over Hogans Barn on this point
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 12:22 pm
@farmerman,
I never said that sale between individual change the tax laws in this case!

All I said is that such laws can not be enforced when you are dealing with no ID records transactions between gold and cash or cash and gold in the cases I had outline.

You on the honor system to pay the Federal Goverment these profits as you are the only one who know what you purchase the coins for and what you sold them for. Yes the seller know what he sold the coins for but not your name and the buyer know what he paid for the coins but not your name.

Once more the seller records does not normally ID you if you pay cash and on the other end the buyer if he in not a dealer with local laws such as in South Florida does not also ID the seller in his records if the seller is pay in cash.

Now do you understand?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 12:36 pm
@farmerman,
Oh farmerman it is my understanding ,not that I had ever purchase gold or silver coins in my life, that most coin dealers prefer for their own reasons to deal in cash and carry when selling or buying coins who worth is in the metal they contain.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 01:09 pm
@BillRM,
Oh and yes we are not talking about 10,000 in one purchase or one sale either as coin holders trend to be long term holders of gold they also tend to not be in a hurry to buy or sale the gold in question or at least that what I hear.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 03:38 pm
one of the largest deposits of gold in the US was in the Lebanon County mine that was located on the Cornwall/Kelvin Fault. This deposit ws primarily an iron mine with a significant amount of copper sulfide minerals called CHALCO-pyrite. The gold was held in the crystal lattices of the copper sulfide. WEVery so often, in the lattice, a copper was missing and a gold atom substituted quite easily. So the deposit was one of the most productive. The iron mine (owned by Bethlehem Steel) shut down in the 50's and has been sitting there as one huge hole full of water. WIth todays prices of gold (actually the price, in trms of real value, was higher in the late 1970's and early 1980's) . STill, the mine is being considered for reopening and , as commodities become more pricey as the dollar shrinks, itll be looked at as an attractive mine source to reopen and be used to mine gold for bullion.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 03:53 pm
@BillRM,
Here is how it works Billy. Read this article about the tax man and gold.

http://www.moneymorning.com/2009/11/18/taxes-gold-investment/

According to the article , even gold based ETF's are considered collectible based. SUbject to 28% if held for more than a year and as ordinary income iof held for less. GAAAH. That makes making the meatl as a part of an investment startegy, not as smart as weve been led to believe.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:03 pm
@farmerman,
Gold can be beaten into a layer so thin that its translucent. Because of its then optical propwerties, it refracts light so that the light seen through the gold appears greenish blue. and the refracted colors are seen just outside the edges of the sheet. One can tests this by getting some gold leaf and beating it with a very smoot piece of crystal cabachon on a similar smooth piece used as an anvil. Just hit the peice of rock over the gold leaf until it forms the translucent center. Then mount it between two pieces of glass (easier said than done because it will blow around on the slightest of air movement.
With the leaf in between the glass look at various lights and you can see how it refracts and displaces the reds and yellows with its pleiochroic property.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:09 pm
@farmerman,
The WEMirates PAlace Hotel served up over 11 pounds of gold leaf on its food in 2008. Even as the Stock MArket was tumbling, the Rich Bastards of Abu Dhabi were consuming the metal in their wine and on their chocolates.
I hope they got one of the radioactive isotopes.
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:18 pm
@farmerman,
The most expensive ice cream sundae with gold can be found in NYC and priced at $1000:

http://most-expensive.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/expensive-ice-cream-sundae.jpg

http://most-expensive.net/ice-cream-sundae
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:29 pm
during the late 40's and the 50's when my family lived in the middle-east, every trip around europe/north africa/middle-east, my mother would buy a gold coin issued by the nation we were in. The last I knew my mom had about 20 gold coins, seems like the price of gold in those days was about $32 ounce. I suppose those coins have a much greater value today.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:34 pm
@dyslexia,
nah, not so much as youd notice. GAther it all up and send your gold coins to one of those cash for gold places.Go to their website and they will send you a safe envelope into which you put your coins and then mail them to a certified dealer in Calimantan. Theyll take good care of you. trust me.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:39 pm
@farmerman,
yeah, I'll do that first thing mon morning.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:46 pm
@dyslexia,
Seriously though, the Freidberg catalogs of gold coins of the world are really good and are updated frequently. If theres some berg that puts out a gold coin Freidberg will have it.

I have the 7th edition, Im sure theres an 8th ed. by now.

We used to do assay work and always used Canadian Maple leafs as the best standard. They go "6 nines" millesimal. A krugeraand is only 22K.

Ive heard that there are 2 Double Eagles yet unaccounted for. They would be worth millions on the foreign market. Course you could always be a good citizen and turn it in like your sposed to.


Do you have any PANDAS/ or Johnson MAtthey or MAtthey Bishop bullion coins?
 

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