Ladies, Next Time that Someone Calls You a Bitch.......

Also, I am the one who wrought a little scruffy fluffle on abuzz by saying I am uncomfy with Hello, Ladies when me and business partner go on a job site.

We don't walk in there saying, hello, gentlemen, to the crew...

My mother was a lady, I am a woman.

(ducking..)

That's the nub still today, it is hard in some circles, to get respect whether or not you pitch a pretty bitch, a reasoned bitch or an unseemly screaming bitch.

After a while one begins to believe that the curmudgeon is right. By being difficult at least you're more likely to get your way.

Ahhh, curling your hair with teen-talk. I'm used to it now, but it takes a little time!

Osso, as a riposte to what you've written, i will address women as "ladies," and if i referred to men on a construction site, or addressed them as a group, i would also say "gentlemen." This is mostly the product of my up-bringing, but i've long noticed its effect, as well. Few women object to being addressed as a lady, and i've found the most of those who do have an agenda on their person somewhere (now, that was just in my pocket, what did i do with that . . . ). But when i refer to ladies or gentlemen, those to whom i refer note that i have spoken respectfully, and respond in like kind--this can be very useful when dealing with people. If i were delivering equipment or materials to one of our crews, and needed to locate them on a building site, i would say: "Excuse me gentlemen, have you seen the crew pulling cable for the cameras?" And i followed the same practices when i was out there in the field, pulling cable and mounting devices. I think it better to make the seasoned judgment of which almost all adults are capable about how one has been addressed--following an artificial rule does not guarantee that one is treated with decency and respect, and following the old ways does not negate decency and respect.

That is a good point, Setanta. I'm happy to be called a lady. I doubt that Osso has an agenda however. I'm not sure how it works, but I can see her point. They should be saying ma'm.

I make frequent use of sir, especially when dealing with (well) men. I've noticed some of the older ones don't like it -- and make a comment that they aren't so old yet. Just a little oddment.

I sort of like it when you call me Boss!

I wasn't suggesting that Osso has an agenda, although she might, and welcome to it . . . rather i was referring to those wimin i've met who get all het up because i use the term "lady" . . . many men, myself included, have said at various times: "Don't call me 'sir,' i work for a livin'!" -- and this usually refers to the low opinion which the "Vietnam generation" formed of their officers while in the arny . . .

I haven't received that particular riposte, but I would understand that a lot better. It's been more of an age thing.

I still do it though, 'cause dammit, I like to. It's along the lines of my love of Gilbert and Sullivan and "kind sir" and all that.

I thought bitchin' in California was accepted as decent, or is that only so in LA, as opposed to, say, in Eureka?

I would never do or say anything derogatory, though I get caught in the Politically Correct things to say sometimes; and, often it is PC for just that one person. Don't take total offense-I am learning and fotunately,

Them Times They Are A Changin'

Mr. D, when I was surfin in San Diego the term "bitchin" meant beautiful surf, a great looling surf board, any thing we we liked was really bitchin.

I don't mind being called a lady or being treated like one. It's nice. But, I will also open the door for a man if I've reached it first...Respect should be shown both ways.

My son has been taught to open buildings and car doors for girls, ladies, women...and to treat them with respect. It seems to work in his favor, too.

I don't like it if someone goes, "Hey, Lady!" That's bad, and instead I would have much preferred to have heard, "Excuse me, ma'am"...(but,I don't even really like ma'am, either. It makes me feel old, but ladies and gentlemen is just fine.) I have worked a lot around kids, and I don't even really feel comfortable when they are told to call me "Mrs. Matrix". I'm not ashamed of being "Mrs.", but again, the title makes me feel old...like the women in my mother's generation.

I still don't think that Phoenix's poem is saying that women are requesting to be called bitches or that women should be bitchy and proud of it. I still think that all it is saying to women is that they should be proud of who they are, that they are worthy, and that they shouldn't be afraid to be assertive when trying to better themselves, regardless of attempts by others to hold them down to a lower level in society or their relationships.

Setanta...

Re "sir"...what would you prefer a person address a man as, if "sir" is not an acceptable term? Sometimes, like when shopping, I've addressed a clerk by saying, "excuse me, Sir", when I've needed assistance with something. Other than "Hey, Mister", or "Yo, Dude", I don't know...what is there? You can't always see their nametag, and need to get their attention somehow...

Well said, Matrix!

I admit, I often say "sir" to be a little silly... but I mean no harm, just trying to show inordinate respect... sort of like "BOSS"!

Phoenix,
1. It is a great site
2. The name has already been put on us
as the mantle of the female, but - an
intelligent woman found a way to
turn the negative into the positive
3. Your comments are most admirable.
I agree that phrases like "the little woman"
"obedient, or disobedient wife" are
not only rife with macho superiority, but
address masculine superiority with the
clearest of intent.
And Craven: did you take note of the way you expressed
how you perceived this post, and The Bitch page, & its
content. Although stated in a largely impartial way;
the dead give away, where you goofed, or let the cat
out of the bag, or allow your real story show itself, was
the moment when you began to describe the only "people"
you have known, who are rude, snotty and unbearable -
as females.
**I can clearly & truly state for THIS woman, that I have
known many people (male AND female) in my lifetime who
are rude, snobby and unbearable. To continue to look at
the word bitchy as a negative FEMALE description does an
injustice to us all.
Thanks, Babs

Please don't blatantly misquote me, I said nothing of the sort.



I did NOT say all the people I know who are rude are female. I said all the women I know who like to be known as a bitch (this is where the field is narrowed, not the risible conclusion in your feckless psychoanalysis) are rude.

edit:

In case it's still unclear to you:



DOES NOT mean:

babsatamelia,

Imagining an injustice doesn't make it real. There are thousands of unfair and sexist words in our language like master/mistress, governor/governess, bachelor/spinster.....

But bitch is not one of those words, bitch referes to females because of the etymology of the word, that it became a disrespectful word is unfortunate but calling a man a dog is not complimentary so it doesn't fit the bill of the earlier words I listed.

And if your logic-free conclusions are to be followed is the fact that only males are called pricks a "injustice to us all"?

If I sound combative it's clearly intended I am furious at you for putting such vile words in my mouth to make such an unfounded accusation.

Jerry,

I detest that phrase, but yes I'm very pissed.

Sorry,..just an attempt at levity, no offense intended.

Jerry,

None, whatsoever, was taken. I just don't like that phrase (for reasons related to the topic of this thread).

Apologies, Craven
Dear Craven
If I misquoted you, as it appears that I have done,
I DO genuinely apologize and ask for your patience
and tolerance toward THIS rude & unbearable person.
And certainly, referring to a man as a "prick" is an
injustice to us all, as well. I can assure you that the
word "prick" has never crossed my lips toward anyone.

And I'm sorry for being so easily irked. The thing is, I used to be a "male feminist" (till I met a certain raging feminist) and have never thought in the way you indicated.

I am taking a position here that can easily be interpreted as hostile toward the aspects of feminism that are indisputably justified and was trying my best not to have my posts interpreted in the way you did.

In any case we'll meet again. I intend to launch a diatribe (one day, when I have time for the fallout) about the overzealous aspects of feminism that I feel do a disservice to the overall cause and I'm sure it will inflame many of the women here.