Ladies, Next Time that Someone Calls You a Bitch.......

And we are well at least I try to be. Love it Phoenix.

Phoenix... I couldn't agree more. Around here I am frequently called the "Disobedient Wife" -- but only with the nicest intonation.

Oh my gosh Piffka you are not an obedient wife! Neither was I and I never learned how to be one either.

Piffka- Wow! You have no idea how your words, "disobedient wife" affected me. I could relate very well to that. Even in these days of supposed equality, I find that, with my husband, as well as with the spouses of my friends, there is an undercurrent of "noblesse oblige" on the part of the male member of the couple. It is sort of like, "I LET my wife do what she wants" I would like to delve into this further, but it is late, and my brain is in 4th gear!

Later then, OK?

It was actually a name coined years ago for me. <sigh> I have always been this way!

I'm giving a copy of this to my 15 year old daughter, Phoenix...it's perfect!


...I wonder how many wives say, "I LET my husband do that"? (Probably not a lot in mixed company, I'll bet!)

I work with an extremely sexist group of people, lawyers and judges. It's been really tough from time to time, but less so as I get older and less prone to harassment!

On the home front, I'm very blessed. My husband never felt that he was "babysitting" the kids if I wasn't home; he was taking care of his kids. He would never say that he "let" me do something, nor would he refer to me as "the wife" or "the little woman". In 30 years, I have never felt anything less than equal.

He swears that I muttered to him as we progressed back down the aisle after taking our wedding vows, "The love, honour and obey? Forget the obey' part."

I really must work harder on becoming a bitch!
:wink:

I must say that I have a very strong dislike for attempts at making that word positive. I have yet to meet a self avowed "bitch" who didn't treat others badly.

All the women (or maybe I should say girls) who I've known who called themselves bitches were rude, snobby and utterly unbrearable. It was not a question of respect but rather the right they percieved themselves to have to be able to treat others like their minions.

I don't use the word if possible.

I hope I don't offend all the ladies on this site (yes, I know it looks like I go out of my way to do just that) but think of it this way. How endearing would it be for men to be self avowed "aresholes". You know, speaking one's mind, refusing to be stepped on etc. It's an odd society that values the most confrontational and abrasive personalities.

edit:

This doesn't mean I fancy docile women. I find that even more disgusting. I just think that female empowerment has nothing to do with shoddy people skills.

Phoenix - I understand, of course, what you are saying - but I have to confess I agree with Craven because it seems such a negative stereotype to be identifying with and celebrating when there are numerous other terms and concepts to be celebrated anew.

I find it jarring and distressing when women are identifying themselves and their behaviour in such a way - I tend to feel it less reverses and lampoons the concept of "bitch" than it invites women to identify with the negative stereotypes in a disturbing way.

I notice the women who DO identify in this way also - at least if their bumper-stickers are to be believed! - tend to also identify with very negative stereotypes of the effects of such things as menstrual cycles and menopause and with the view of women as out of control of moods and thinking.

Craven- Have you really read the essay carefully? Seems like the women in the description have GREAT people skills.

I can understand that the word "bitch" has a negative connotation. I believe that it is precisely why the author used it. Think about it. What is considered assertive in a male is considered "bitchy" in a female.

A man who drives a hard bargain in business is considered a smart businessman. A woman who behaves the same way is considered a bitch.

A man who is assertive (we are not talking about being loutish here) is applauded. A woman who is assertive is bitchy.

Women had, in the past, been socialized to be passive and "ladylike". A woman who refuses to stay in that mold is a bitch.

I remember that when I was a kid in the 1950s I had a discussion with my friends. Remember that in those years, the women who worked, worked predominantly in lower level positions.

One of the guys was talking about the few business women who had "made it" and had responsible, high level positions. He characterized them as bitches and dykes. If you think about it what he was saying was that these women, in order to get ahead, had to have the same qualities as hard driving business men. Because high level opportunities were so rare in those days, it was only the most assertive women who survived out in the business world.

Now that young women have a fairer "shake" women who run the gamut of personalities can aspire to achieve high position.

dlowan- I think that there is a method to the author's madness. IMO, what she is attempting to do is to turn around what has been a negative stereotype in the past.

Phoenix - I am very much aware of the author's intent - I just do not agree that the intent is realized in this particular case.

Phoenix,

I have read it many times. I never considered it an essay because it was always just one of those email chain letters. I have also never considered assertive women to be bitchy and am only commenting that the ones I know who call themselves bitches tend to act with utter disregard to the wishes of those around them.

e.g.

Woman treats someone rudely. People around look shocked. Woman shrugs and says. "yeah, I'm a bitch"

I've known women like that and they do a disservice to the word.

I'll write an essay trying to take the negativity out of the "men are dogs" and the word "asshole" in the future. I think it will make as much sense.

dlowan & Craven- I hear what you are saying too, and I think that you both have valid point. The fact remains that she DID relate her essay to the word "bitch", and I was reacting to the message that she gave.

What I am wondering, is if I am perceiving this differently than the two of you is it because I am much older than the both of you? I have lived through the immense changes that have occurred to the position of women in the last 50 years. I would be interested in knowing how the older men & women on the site relate to this, and the differences amongst the reactions of the older and younger folks!

Personally, i usually only use the "bitch" when addressing a young man who has pissed me off--because i know it makes them crazy . . .

heeheeheeheeheeheehee

okbye

Interesting question Phoenix - and it will be intrigueing to see the responses - but, I be old! I be forty-nine!

Phoenix,
For once, I think that pulling the age card might actually be valid in this case. The thing is, I can't imagine you or the other women in this thread acting in the ways I describe above regardless of the way you view the word. There are, however, a lot more rude men and women in my age group and I know many who have used this very chain letter to justify their disrespect for those around them.

So maybe age is relevant, all the women I know who are proud to call themselves bitches are young women and they are not making a feminist point, they are simply saying that they are proud of the way they treat others and the things they get away with.

Here is my essay (written by the find and replace function), it's a low blow (because the word is not gender specific) but shows what the bitch chain letter looks like to me.
--------------------------------

Edit: made it gender specific
I used to think that prick was a BAD word but not anymore!

When you stand up for yourself and your beliefs, they call you an prick.

When you stand up for those you love, they call you a prick.

When you speak you mind, think you own thoughts, or do things you own way, they call you a prick.

When you refuse to tolerate injustice and speak up against it, you are defined as a prick.

The same thing happens when you takes time for youself instead of being everyone's servant or when you act a little selfish.

Being a prick has meant raising your children to be strong people who have a solid sense of personal and social responsibility, who are not afraid to stand up for what they believe in and who love and respect themselves for the beautiful beings they are.

Being a prick means that you are free to be the wonderful creature that you are, with all your own intricacies, contradictions, quirks and attitude.

Being a prick means you won't compromise what's in your heart.
It means you live your life your way.
It means you won't allow anyone to step on you.

Person
Really
In
Control
Kicks ass

Setanta - that is very funny!