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Religious Nuts Kill Own Daughter—Is Their Sentence Appropriate?

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 01:40 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
So, then your belief holds more weight then others in your opinion? Rather egocentric on your part.

Perhaps others feel the same way though. That their beliefs outweigh others whether others want to understand them or not.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 01:43 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
And I crushed a snail while I was hanging out the laundry yesterday and I felt a twinge of regret. Different strokes....

But I have to say I'd feel better about praying for my child than aborting her.

These people may have been misguided and deluded and even ignorant - but they did not willfully kill their child. They did what they believed would help her. They did not willfully destroy her.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 01:50 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

So, then your belief holds more weight then others in your opinion? Rather egocentric on your part.

Perhaps others feel the same way though. That their beliefs outweigh others whether others want to understand them or not.


Sure; but I'm not trying to tell other people how to live their lives in any area which doesn't affect the life of another person. My beliefs hold 100% weight when it comes to actions which only affect me.

I have no problem with the parents in question believing whatever they want - for themselves. However, to inflict those beliefs on your children, at the cost of their lives, is irresponsible and unsupportable.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 01:51 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

And I crushed a snail while I was hanging out the laundry yesterday and I felt a twinge of regret. Different strokes....

But I have to say I'd feel better about praying for my child than aborting her.

These people may have been misguided and deluded and even ignorant - but they did not willfully kill their child. They did what they believed would help her. They did not willfully destroy her.


The end result is the same. Inaction in the face of danger to one's child is directly comparable to action against that child.

Imagine a kid who is going to be hit by a car; is it right to let that kid get hit, because you believe that people who wander in front of cars deserve to get hit, or that 'God saves those who need to be saved?' I would say no, not if you can prevent it.

Cycloptichorn
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:03 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

However, to inflict those beliefs on your children, at the cost of their lives, is irresponsible and unsupportable.

Cycloptichorn


I don't see how you can square this with abortion and still be able to maintain credibility.

But, That's the only point I will make on this as I feel the parents made a mistake as well. The punishment of losing their daughter is more likely a greater punishment then any law office will give them as they seem to hold the bond of family in far greater importance then most.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:07 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
The end result is the same. Inaction in the face of danger to one's child is directly comparable to action against that child.

Imagine a kid who is going to be hit by a car; is it right to let that kid get hit, because you believe that people who wander in front of cars deserve to get hit, or that 'God saves those who need to be saved?' I would say no, not if you can prevent it.

And I would say the same. If you are aware that a car is headed for your child - you'd jump in front of it and grab the child out of the way if you could. But what if your head was turned the other way and you weren't aware of the oncoming car? As a parent, I'd prevent whatever I was aware enough of to prevent - and I'd try my best to be aware of everything.
Do we actually know though that these parents were aware? That's my question.
There's a case over here right now in which a two year old wandered onto a railroad track and the mother watched as he was hit. Should she have been watching him better? Yes. Did she place him on the railroad track to get hit? No. Is there a difference?
Because the result is the same. He's dead. But people who are wiser than I am have decreed that there is a legal difference between negligence and actual assault or physical violence and/or murder.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:09 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

Is there a longer article somewhere that people are getting other facts from? Have these children NEVER seen a pediatrician? Have they never been vaccinated? I'm just going on the facts from the article Kicky posted. Are there other facts I'm not aware of? If so- can someone link an article with all this ancillary information? Thanks.


From the Neumann's family ministry website

Quote:
First off, stop focusing all your attention on your physical body, and start focusing more attention on the spiritual being you are.


Quote:
The doctors have no special powers; they are mere men, they are subject to mistakes, just like the rest of us. The message is clear, when it is the appointed time; nobody has the power to save unless it is the will of God to do so.


And there's a link to faith healing experts
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:15 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Thanks Walter - that adds a little perspective. But I'd still like to know if they had any idea of their child's condition and rejected the specific solution to her suffering.

Because if they did - I think they should burn in hell.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:17 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
What is the difference between this case and abortion then?

Can you really not tell the difference between an eleven year old and an embryo?
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:20 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

http://www.unleavenedbreadministries.org/?page=neumann

Quote:
Leilani Neumann's Press Release
5/23/09

Our emotions do not hinge on how, or if, the rest of the world approves of our actions. We live for God’s approval alone, standing with the apostles and many others willing to be thrown into the fiery furnace if need be, but we WILL NOT worship or bow down to any other God.


Quote:
Madeline Kara was a very mature Christian of deep faith in God’s Word; she did her own study on doctors and medicine exactly one week prior to her death.

<snip>

Kara found out through her study of God’s Word that the Bible did not advocate doctors or medicine but, rather, that modern-day medicine is a counterfeit to God’s healing power.
<snip>

Make sure everyone knows that this is no more the America we thought it was. And please don’t try to hide it behind “Reckless Homicide" charges or "Neglect” because the real issue is our government is anti-God.

<snip>

How many more citizens’ rights will be violated if we do not have a government who fears God more than man? I am strong, simply because I fear God alone.


McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:21 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
What is the difference between this case and abortion then?

Can you really not tell the difference between an eleven year old and an embryo?


I can.

Can you tell the difference between stabbing your daughter and what happened in this case?
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:24 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Can you tell the difference between stabbing your daughter and what happened in this case?

Have I indicated any confusion on that subject? Perhaps you should re-read my posts on this thread.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:32 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Can you tell the difference between stabbing your daughter and what happened in this case?

Have I indicated any confusion on that subject? Perhaps you should re-read my posts on this thread.


I assumed that when you interjected in the discussion I was having, you had actually read the relevant posts. I suppose that was too much to have asked of you. My apologies. Please carry on with your being a dumbass.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:34 pm
@McGentrix,
uhh, kicky. you are signed in as McG right now...

(i'm confused)
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:51 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
What is the difference between this case and abortion then?

Can you really not tell the difference between an eleven year old and an embryo?

So one second after birth, destroying the child is murder, and one second before it's not at all wrong? That doesn't seem like a very reasonable or credible idea.
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:57 pm
Lets not turn this into an abortion debate. I was using abortion to make a point, not to start 18 pages of crap about abortion.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 02:58 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Lets not turn this into an abortion debate. I was using abortion to make a point, not to start 18 pages of crap about abortion.

Sure. I'll stop if they stop.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 03:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Hard for me to understand why you have a bee in your bonnet, for defending idiots who would watch a kid die rather than admit their religion might not be right.


Of course their religion isn't right, and this is more of the same moving the goalposts nonsense. Ebrown never said their religion was right.

Why do you equate questions about how they could safely keep the kids with defending them and their religion? Can't you be more intellectually honest than that? Arguing that removing the kids might not be best simply doesn't mean that he's defending them or their religion.

Quote:
Did you just not have a topic to get all huffy about this week, or what?


Are you huffy too or just the folks who disagree with you?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 03:01 pm
Given that "they" didn't start, why don't you stop right now? The member who introduced the issue of abortion has called for it to be dropped, so why don't you?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 03:10 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

Thanks Walter - that adds a little perspective. But I'd still like to know if they had any idea of their child's condition and rejected the specific solution to her suffering.

Because if they did - I think they should burn in hell.


During the mother's trial, her attorney argued that the mother "didn't realize how sick the child actually was".

The prosecutors saw it differently. They argued that any reasonable person would have known that there was something gravely wrong with the eleven year old girl. (The girl could not walk or talk and was completely unresponsive.) Expert testimony at the trial was given by doctors who said that the girl's symptoms would have been noticeable for days and even weeks before her death.
 

 
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