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Joe Wilson vs. Kanye West: Which act had more to do with race?

 
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 03:41 pm
@Bi-Polar Bear,
I have no issue with the pres calling Kanye a jacka$$ - just found it amusing and nice to see a politican being real.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 04:10 pm
Both of these punks are jackasses. I have no problem with Obama saying so either.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 05:23 pm
I'm sorry Mr. Obama allowed himself to be pulled into that. Kanye's antics are not worth his commenting on, IMO.
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 05:25 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I stand corrected. It can be denied.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 11:26 am
@eoe,
But it shows him as being a person not just an image - kind of nice to see that.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 11:26 am
@eoe,
And I meant to add not really worth any of us commenting on Kanye's antics, but we are a curious and nosey breed of animal.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 02:34 pm
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss209/darkmedic2/11.jpg
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 05:30 pm
that is truly hilarious...
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 05:38 pm
http://roflrazzi.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/128976970222876522.jpg
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 01:46 am
@Setanta,
I neglected to reply to this the first time around so here's a late reply.

Setanta wrote:
'Whenever anyone starts on this crap about Americans being obsessed about race, i immediately find it suspect. Tell us, Robert, about the attitudes of Brazilians toward the tribes in the Amazon basin, and how those tribes are treated.


First of all, the existence of racism elsewhere does little to indict what I said. When I say that American's have an obsession with race it does little to contradict it to show that other countries have racism.

But as to your question, in Brazil Indians are treated, by the general population, similar to how they are treated in America. As an afterthought because they've been repressed into near extinction. In all my years in Brazil I don't recall any negative conversations about Indians at all. They are out of sight and out of mind.

Brazil's racism is largely directed at black people. But it's a different kind of racism than in the US. More of a subtle institutional (largely do to enduring class lines) discrimination than violent hatred. Just about every Brazilian is part black, and while the whites from the south of Brazil discriminate against the blacks from the north of Brazil this is also largely due to class conflict. The blacks from the south also discriminate against the poor blacks from the north.

In Brazil, racism is more acceptable than in the US, because in general race and physical appearance is just not as big of a deal. If you are fat you are called fatso (gordo, not for women though), if you are blond you are called German, if you are Asian you are called Japa (lots of Japanese in Brazil), if you are big and you are black your name is neg√£o (big black). These are used affectionately, even if I never did appreciate the familiarity of yelling out "hey fatso" or "hey big black" as names in Brazil. But it's just a lot more matter-of-fact than in America. People are more comfortable in their own skin and don't care as much about the skin of others. They care much more about the class, because there is more class conflict in Brazil than race conflict.

In America, there's an odd obsession with race in my experience. It's no "melting pot", they keep much more separate and hate each other much more. Brazil is much more like a melting pot, with most of the country being a mix of Indian, black and white. There's less anti-racism but less hatred of other races. It's just not nearly as big a deal as everyone makes it in America. They had an ugly history with slavery, but didn't have nearly as much of the violence and aggression in the civil rights movement and there is much less tension in race relations.

And just about everywhere I have lived, it's not as big of a deal. People tended to care less what race you were and it wasn't such a tense subtext to interracial relations. In some cases you could argue that it was due to more racism, like in Japan, but the country is so monolithic (they are the least likely to inter-marry of any nation) that it was never much of an issue in day-to-day exchanges and the race issues are very different. For them it has a lot more to do with being such a different culture and having a close-knit and closed culture than it was about hating other races. Jewish communities seem similar, it's a discrimination that has more to do with being close-knit than thinking others are inferior.

The only peoples I know that outdo American race obsession might be Australians (though it seemed less of an obsession, just similar or more levels of white supremacy) and most certainly South Africans (the most race centric peoples I had experience with).

It's hard to measure such things, but this is my experience. Outside of the US I just hear a lot less about race than inside the US. People don't ask me what race I am. I don't have to fill out forms and pick a race (or pick "other"). It's just not as big of a deal, for better or for worse.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 08:47 am
@Robert Gentel,
I'm late to this thread due to some overseas travel when the incident happened, but I'm going to take the opposite stand. Not about Kayne being an ass, that is hard to dispute, but about the race aspect of it. The Beyonce video has become a viral sensation. It is being performed by[url="single lady flash mob"] flash mobs[/url], paradied on comedy shows and even made an appearance on Glee last week. I like the Swift song better (maybe because my six year old walks around singing it all the time), but the Beyonce video has clearly had a much bigger impact, bigger than I can remember any video hitting since Thriller. (I don't really follow videos all that much and don't claim any particular expertise. That I've even heard of the Single Lady song is a true statement of how big that video is.) I don't know if Kayne would have dissed a R&B singer or someone other than a white, teenage pop star, but I believe there is room for him to honestly believe that the Beyonce video was one of the greatest of all time. And of course, he's an ass.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 08:55 am
@engineer,
Correction to busted link above: flash mob
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 11:55 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
I'm late to this thread due to some overseas travel when the incident happened, but I'm going to take the opposite stand.


I'm not sure if you are responding to me, or just to the last post in the thread, but I do want to point out that I've never asserted that this incident was about race myself. My argument has been more along the lines that America is so obsessed by race that almost any interaction between a white person and a black person is seen by some to have racial undertones.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 12:20 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I hardly ever disagree with kicky but this time...I think it's more about our society, manners and rudeness. More so than bigotry.

Both incidents were socially rude which is becoming more and more accepted.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 12:28 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

engineer wrote:
I'm late to this thread due to some overseas travel when the incident happened, but I'm going to take the opposite stand.


I'm not sure if you are responding to me, or just to the last post in the thread, ...

To the original post actually. Faulty posting on my part. I missed the early days of the post and am trying to make up for last time.
0 Replies
 
 

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