Joe Wilson vs. Kanye West: Which act had more to do with race?

I don't think anyone is complaining about every slight. We probably never hear about even half of them. While I recall hearing some right-wing caterwauling about the Obama girls going with their parents to Europe, Malia's braided hairstyle, and there was bitching about the Martha's Vineyard vacation a few weeks ago, what I didn't hear was any response or accusations of racism behind any of that. Even the hairstyle business, which was definitely race-tinged, to say the least, got no response and believe me, I was holding my breath, waiting for one. But not a peep came through.
So you see, no one is screaming about every little thing. It just appears that way because there's SO MUCH happening to scream about.

I still don't disagree.

more effective would be to scream less, and come forth with really good evidence at key points to counter the evil that is racism as well as classism.

I am NOT criticizing your argument, but trying to make a bigger point.

you and I rarely speak, but I hold you in high regard.

I don't think that there is necessarily a problem in the United States focusing on race. It means that people are aware, and that a good many people want to end discrimination based on race, as well as that based on gender and sexual orientation. And i see nothing wrong with that.

Someone mentioned China. People who are Han Chinese, who speak Mandarin well, and who speak also one of the few "acceptable" dialects, such as Cantonese, fit right into the mainstream, and it would never occur to them to worry about how they will be treated because of their appearance or their speech. But people from the country who speak in "unacceptable" dialects, especially if they don't speak Mandarin, will almost automatically be marginalized, will not even remotely be considered for high-paying or prestigious jobs, will not be able to find housing in many neighborhoods, and will be chivvied from pillar to post if they have the misfortune to fall afoul of the police. If, in addition, they are visibly not Han Chinese, their treatment will be even worse.

The official party line is that there is no racial discrimination in China, end of discussion. It doesn't get talked about, and nothing gets done about it. But the conflicts are very real. I'm sure everyone here knows about how the Tibetans have reacted to the attempts to plant their territory with Han Chinese. But there are far worse situations. Click here to read a Reuters report about the Uighur and the Han Chinese. Things like this come up, and the Chinese leadership end up very, very embarrassed, unable to deal effectively with the publicity, because they always officially deny that there is any racism in China. Anyone who has read Marco Polo will know that the Chinese empire embraced dozens of peoples, and that they were culturally and religiously diverse, as well as being in regions far separated from the center of the empire.

Whenever anyone starts on this crap about Americans being obsessed about race, i immediately find it suspect. Tell us, Robert, about the attitudes of Brazilians toward the tribes in the Amazon basin, and how those tribes are treated.

I've got to ask, what would you constitute as really good evidence? And how would you counter it?

something the other side can't shoot down without tipping their hand.

I am a nobody, I do what I can every day.

I live and work among folks that would swear on a stack of bibles that they are not racist.

(and then tell nigger jokes with teenage children on break)

pick your spots is all I can say.

Like what?

kicky,

Kanye found your thread.

Y'all get off Kanye"
I've been seeing that everywhere. Just now I saw one where he takes the mic from Paris Jackson, Michael's little girl. At this point no words are needed, the mere visual is enough. What a big joke he's become. Hope he knows it.

Moving back to the original post for a moment.

No, I don't think West would have said what he did if the winner had been black.
I don't think he would have said anything if the winner had been Hispanic, or Asian.

But, from just googling anything about his apology, I can't honestly say I think he regrets having said what he did, but only regrets having said it in front of so many witnesses.

I read where he expressed his regrets about the incident on 3 different shows/interviews, etc.

However, when Swift was being interviewed after those 3 times, she said he had not yet come forth and met her to personally apologize.

Then, apparantly he called her on the phone. Something like that needed to be done face to face, and before telling the general public he was sorry.

I watched a short clip on Jay Leno, and the flow of it seemed to be rather similar to his inital rant.
During the MTV awards, he first said something like....don't get me wrong, I'm glad you won...but.....Then he makes it very clear he isn't so glad she won.

On Leno's show, first he talks about how he's still "dealing" with his mothers death (in 2007) and mentions some other stuff going on, and about the pressures of being a celebrity.....(an aside, I'd never heard of the man, but then again, I'd never heard of Swift either. Point is, it's not like he's God or something).
Anyway, after talking about all these pressures and problems, he finally says some about that not excusing his behavior. He went on from there, repeating a couple of times how if Swift ever needed anything....and so on.

Now, what in the world would this woman ever need from this guy?

Anyway, it seemed like he was a pretty self absorbed person, and watching the video of that poor young woman kinda just standing there helplessly made my stomach hurt. For a few seconds, she looked like a little 3 or 4 year old girl, who'd just been crushed.

As far as the general population, other countries, etc. I tend to my own knitting, and let others tend to theirs, no matter what color their wool is.

The memes really are out in full force, maybe because there was a lot of hate for Kanye even before this (because of proclamations like him being the voice of this generation etc). There's even a meme of both Wilson and Kanye:



I like Kanye vs Kanye the best:



Or Obama on Kanye:

Just for the record, Kanye West is considered one of the most prolific record producers on the scene today. He's a brilliant poet. Love him or hate him, that fact cannot be denied.

I'm leaning more and more towards the whole MTV incident being about shameless and calculated publicity more than anything else. Was he booked on Jay Leno's premiere show before or after the awards? hmmm...

I think this has les to do with people being racist and more to do with people being mean spirited assholes by and large. Race is a good, stout, easy to handle club for hurting people and therefore is one of the weapons we use against one another the most. But if it isn't or wasn't that it would be something else. people are just assholes, that's all.

Oh, I believe you say he has talent.

When you say record producers, do you mean on the business end, or meaning he's sung on a lot of records?

If he did do it for publicity, that's even colder and more repugnant.

Simply having talent shouldn't mean you can stomp on someone's soul.

To me, although race is a factor, it seems it's more about a person who feels entitled to break someone's heart.

I don't think I like him very much, if he's like that his talent doesn't mean anything to me.

Woah there; I deny that he is a 'brilliant poet.' I mean, I really deny this.

Cycloptichorn

Actually Cy, after I posted I went on a lyrics search of his stuff.

I have to say I agree.

some were rap with typical dirty words and sentences that make no sense. well at least to me, I don't know the genre, but it seems any lyric should be something that's understood when read.

others were repeating short verses, with some other stuff thrown in. Nothing to bring tears to my eyes or a smile to my lips.

Then again, as I've said before, I'm not into music or poetry. Prose is wear it's at for me.

eoe, maybe I just looked at some bad examples of his work, or it's my own shortcomings. I'm not the best judge.

And the odd thing - just to link Kanye to Obama in an odd way - did you hear Obama called Kanye a jacka$$? Heard Obama's actual words on the radio this morning - he didn't realize he was being recorded.

"he didn't realize he was being recorded. "

bet...

he's a pretty sharp guy.

Yes - he was booked on the Leno say way before this outburst.

Here's the deal....if you act like a jackasss people will call you a jackass... even if you're the president you have a right to express your opinion, especially if the jackassedness is so huge that Stevie wonder could see it.

Kanye is a ****... can we move on people? I'd like to get a CPE and my glaucoma medicine without having to cut back on my heroin expenses money.

I think it was Katy Perry that said - what Kanye did was like kicking a kitten. Thought that description was apt.

In either case - I don't think race was the main factor - I think being an a$$ was and wanted to hear yourself. I also don't think Kanye really regrets what he said - he regrets everyone's reaction to it. He thought he was too big a name for everyone to not listen to him and think he was right - big ego.