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20 years ago: the man who "really" brought down the Iron Curtain

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 10:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,

Do u have the sense that in the time leading up to 1914,
life in Germany for the average citizen was life in a free country ?
( so long as u don t cause any political trouble )
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 11:02 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I've a lot a papers/documents from a great-uncle - he /and his family) certainly thought so (well, they were upper middle-class in that small town).


I've down a bit of research work of that period: generally, this period is described as being rather 'free'.
But when you look closer at those 'testimonies' (in newspapers, booklets, magazines, and so on) you'll notice that it is all about middle-class and above.

So, when you look at 'people's history', the history of "Otto Normal", it's quite different: this majority just was allowed to work and applaud.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 11:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:


So, when you look at 'people's history',
the history of "Otto Normal", it's quite different:
this majority just was allowed to work and applaud.
Do u believe that thay felt threatened ?
Felt in danger from the power of government ?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 12:50 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Well, I just know about this sources from what you find e.g. in 'labour archives' and museums'.
They felt threatened - mainly by those who they for.
They didn't have a political voice (" Prussian three class franchise").
I don't really that they felt in danger from the power of government but more to "authorities" = everything in uniform, from soldiers over civil servants to policemen.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 01:24 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter - I went through the masses of legalese you very kindly linked me to, and I still have questions on the DDR and the restitution of properties to Jews only and not to other former owners (including of course the families of those who tried to kill Hitler, but many others as well). On what grounds was this done? Whatever was taken by the Russians was handed back, but (excluding jewish owners) whatever was taken by the German communists remained with the German State. Recall, too, that the communists in question were locals, so they knew the best properties better than the Russians. Why was there no appeal to the European Court, or any other instance? Thanks very, very much Smile
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 01:31 pm
@High Seas,
As far as I remember - I hope that I remember to look it up more precisely - that was considered to be a 'legal act'. (Well, I'm rather sure about it. And I know I had/have some academic papers about it - either in the 'book magazine' in the cellar or ... given to the paper recycling.)
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 01:36 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Hilfe, Walter! I'm desperately trying to finish a logistical framework for getting a public entity out of technical (not legal) bankruptcy, and can use any precedent you would be kind enough to provide. I think I have most facts about the Treuhandanstalt and the Deutsche Aktienbank straight, but my impression is that the old Bundeskanzler buried some info under masses of dossiers during the move from Bonn to Berlin....Thank you Smile
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 01:55 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
See >here<26, number 96.

What the Russians did between 1945 and 1949 is thought to be a "legal compulsory purchase" as defined in the Vertrag zur deutschen Vereinigung - Vermögensgesetz,

That's all I could find in the moment.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 09:13 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Fascinating, Walter.
0 Replies
 
VALTUI
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:49 am
@Walter Hinteler,
You are talking about the "Picnic at Sopron". Sopron is a small Hungarian town positioned near the border with Austria. In fact Sopron is in a niche which is surrounded on three sides by Austrian territory. It was deemed an ideal place to stage the "International Friendship Picnic", but ofcourse the real purpose was to test the most permiable spot in the Iron Curtain. Everyone knew that the Hungarians had a reputation for being the least reliable communists or, to put it annother way, the Hungarians had been known for their resentment after the Soviet invasion of Budapest 1956. Clearly Arpad Bella played an important role in assuring that the picnic was a success. Both Germans and Hungarians celebrate this event as "The first break in the Iron Curtain". What followed immediately on its footsteps was the flood of couragous citizens all accross the East Block states demanding the right to travel to the West, culminating with the opening of the Berlin Wall on November 9th 1989 which brought about the virtual re-unification of Germany and the eventual desolving of the Soviet Union alltogether. The wars which desolved the artificial state of Yugo-Slavia, (created in 1919), also followed.

So Sopron can be seen as "The flap of a butterfly wing which unleashed a storm".
0 Replies
 
 

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