8
   

Ubnionism and racist immigration policy

 
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 May, 2009 04:30 pm
http://www.unionsaustralia.com.au/about.aspx

Go to this link. Listen to the people on the video. Unless you're too much of a ******* coward to hear the unvarnished truth.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 May, 2009 05:37 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

It's always nice to hear a factual, reasoned argument from a union supporter.
Yeah, I'll try to write more when I get work although I have no intentions to use factual or reasoned argument.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 May, 2009 07:58 pm
@Wilso,
Wilso wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

It's always nice to hear a factual, reasoned argument from a union supporter.


I'm not just a union supporter asshole. I'm a union member. Thanks to my membership in a union, I earn roughly $250 a week more than non-union members.
Well, if you are inclined to believe all the reassurances the union (which makes a lot of money on your dues) feeds you I'm pleased to learn of your deluded comfort.

I think you have merely illustrated Thomas' point: unions sometimes, at best, benefit members at the expense of other workers and ultimately harm the companies they infect, thereby jeapordizing the very jobs they "protect".

I have lots of experience with Labor Unions in this country, the building trades, the metal trades and the mineworkers. I have overseen the negotiation of three collective bargaining agreements, and have dealt with the contrived posturing of union officials, their attempts at shakedowns and the constant politicking they do to keep their duped workers fast in the mistaken belief that they are truly doing something for them. I have also seen up close the contempt many union leaders have for the very workers they so assiduously pretend to protect.

You are free to believe all this cant, as you evidently do, and, as well, to demean yourself with a vocabulary and manner of speech that marks you as a credulous and unthinking victim in all this - your words certainly don't touch me at all. However you would be wise to look beneath the surface and do your own thinking for a change.

Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 12:01 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Wilso wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

It's always nice to hear a factual, reasoned argument from a union supporter.


I'm not just a union supporter asshole. I'm a union member. Thanks to my membership in a union, I earn roughly $250 a week more than non-union members.
Well, if you are inclined to believe all the reassurances the union (which makes a lot of money on your dues) feeds you I'm pleased to learn of your deluded comfort.


Deluded comfort? Does the same job for 26 years sound deluded? Does 90k + sound deluded? You're talking out your ass. Which is understandable for someone who's full of ****.

BTW, did you go listen to those people? Or are you too big a coward to have your closely held views questioned under the light of the truth?
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 02:20 am
Wow--Wilso wrote:

Deluded comfort? Does the same job for 26 years sound deluded? Does 90k + sound deluded? You're talking out your ass. Which is understandable for someone who's full of ****.
***************************************************************

It is clear that Wilso makes far more than the average worker. He has certainly pushed the right buttons.

Do you have any advice for those out of work, Wilso? Where can I make 90+?

My cousin is also looking for a job, He used to work for GM but Obama jammed him!

He doesn't need 90+ Wilso--Only about 45. Do you have any suggestions.

PS- He won't work in a Union Shop unfortunately. He hates Unions ever since the Teamster goons beat him up ten years ago for crossing a picket line--dislocated his arms.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 02:25 am
@genoves,
You do realize, genoves, that that is $90k + Australian, not US? But certainly not to be sneezed at, never-the-less ...
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 02:34 am
@msolga,
That is a lot of money,Msolga. The median wage for family of four in the USA is about $50,000 a year. Even if his yearly salary is worth 80% of a US salary, it is still about $72,000 a year. He is a fortunate man.

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 03:09 am
@genoves,
Yes, he's on a good wage. (Not arguing that he isn't.) Just saying that it's not US dollars, but Australian dollars.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 03:46 am
@genoves,
Yep. Did an AU to US conversion. Close.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 11:11 am
@genoves,
genoves wrote:

Wow--Wilso wrote:

Deluded comfort? Does the same job for 26 years sound deluded? Does 90k + sound deluded? You're talking out your ass. Which is understandable for someone who's full of ****.
***************************************************************

It is clear that Wilso makes far more than the average worker. He has certainly pushed the right buttons.

Do you have any advice for those out of work, Wilso? Where can I make 90+?

My cousin is also looking for a job, He used to work for GM but Obama jammed him!

He doesn't need 90+ Wilso--Only about 45. Do you have any suggestions.

PS- He won't work in a Union Shop unfortunately. He hates Unions ever since the Teamster goons beat him up ten years ago for crossing a picket line--dislocated his arms.


It was as much good luck as good management. Firstly, I do shift work. Some people consider that to be a disadvantage, but for me it's perfect. I do 12 hour shifts, and in each 12 week period, only have to work 38 days. Shift work is an immediate addition of at least $20000 over day work.
Part of it is down to the short sightedness of successive governments, that did nothing to avert a growing skills shortage, so that I'm a tradesman (electrician) in a country where there is a massive shortage of people skilled in all the traditional trades.
Obviously, I'm represented by a union, who negotiate on my behalf.
I work for a company that is happy to negotiate with unions in good faith, instead of trying to divide and conquer the work force.
I am by no means out of the ordinary, and in fact there are a number of guys in this area who earn significantly more. We've had a couple of tradesmen leave our plant to take up positions at the local coal terminal, and are earning salaries in excess of 120k.

Screwed by Obama? Now you're dribbling ****. You're country was fucked over by a bunch of greedy and incompetent bankers, who under the shrub's free market fundamentalism, were able to operate with virtually no rules. There's been no crisis in the Australian banking system because of far better regulation of the sector. But while ever you live in a country that's got so many ideological fuckwits who consider any type of regulation to be socialism, you're always going to be at risk of this kind of financial meltdown.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Jun, 2009 01:34 am
Oh, I am not worried any more, Wilso, since the Messiah arrived. He will lead us out of the ideological wilderness into the Promissory land.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 03:09 pm
I forgot to mention the $190 a week that the company contributes to my superannuation fund.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 03:30 pm
@Wilso,
Wilso wrote:
BTW, did you go listen to those people? Or are you too big a coward to have your closely held views questioned under the light of the truth?

I'm not georgeob1, but yes, I did listen to those people, and they aren't saying anything that georgeob1 or I would dispute. I acknowledge, as does he, that unions can be good for their members.

But that alone doesn't tell us that unions are a good thing. If it did, then by the same logic we could argue that the mob is a good thing because the mobsters are better off because of it. For a complete case in favor of unions, you have to show that there is no offsetting harm to the non-unionized rest of the world, or that the benefits of unions outweigh that harm.

This net effect on the rest of the world is why we have a disagreement between georgeob1 and I on the one side, and you, BBB, MsOlga, and dlowan on the other.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 07:49 pm
you're also holding onto the assumption that the union movement is the same in the US as in Australia, or the rest of the world. There IS a world outside the borders of the USA, and that world is not the same as the USA.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 07:53 pm
@Wilso,
I'm not aware of any "world" outside the USA. What are you talking about?
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 07:53 pm
I will always contend that in the whole, the good of the unions outweighs any harm. If it wasn't for unions, we'd all be working 70 hours a week for a dollar an hour, and be expected to be grateful to have a job at all.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 07:56 pm
@Wilso,
Says you.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 08:09 pm
The happy situation he enjoys that Wilso desdcribed above sounds very much like those of members of the Steelworkers Union enjoyed here until the industry collapsed about twenty years ago because it wasn't able to compete with foreign producers. The rigidity of the union with respect to work rules and staffing discouraged the corporations from making labor saving capital investments: that and high labor rates led to the industry's collapse and the permanent loss of all those wonderful union jobs.

More recently the United Auto Workers Union here has done much the same thing by threatening to strike if employment was reduced as a result the installation of automated assembly line equipment the manufacturers had already paid for. Again the combination of this and other rigid work rules and very high wage rates ended up killing the goose that laid their golden eggs.

It is very likely that the Electrical worker's union in Australia has done everything it can to limit the number of qualified electricians to insure their leverage in a labor market with a permanent shortage of supply.

All this is just as Thomas described it -- good for a few for a while; bad for everyone else, and even the few, in the long term.
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 09:45 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

It is very likely that the Electrical worker's union in Australia has done everything it can to limit the number of qualified electricians to insure their leverage in a labor market with a permanent shortage of supply.


You are so full of crap. That's the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard. The ETU has taken no steps to inhibit the training of electrical workers. But you'll obviously spread any crap that will pathetically attempt to promote your views. Slither away loser. Come back when you've actually got some facts.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 01:55 am
Quote:
Industry and unions to collaborate on skills crisis fix

The National Skills Policy Collaboration has been formed, comprising of major industry groups and unions who are committed to lifting Australia's productivity, workforce participation and economic growth by investing wisely in education and training.

The team have put their heads together to devise an innovative, reliable, realistic and effective ten-point remedy-plan to seriously meet Australia's skills shortage problem.

The plan includes priorities such as:

* a renewed focus on apprenticeship completion rates
* a review of the traineeship program
* a national vision and consensus for the future of TAFE
* skill-infrastructure partnerships between public and private sectors
* boosting Year 12 or Certificate III completion rates
* long-term strategy to improve Australia's investment in education and training. This involves supporting teachers, trainers and their leaders to improve their qualifications and knowledge, as they are vital to bringing up and skilling our future generations.

These proposed, clear and realistic reforms aim to boost skills and productivity, enabling Australia's currently-constrained economic potential to fully flourish in the competitive global market.

Ms Heather Ridout, the Chief Executive of the Australian Industry Group, notes that the skills shortage is an endemic: a pressing issue which needs to be solved immediately. For example, when it comes to students completing their schooling, compared to other Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) countries, Australia is lagging.

Ms Ridout said that "the competitive future of the Australian economy rests in large part with the development of a highly skilled and innovative workforce. This will only happen if there is a quantum leap forward in the resourcing and commitment by a range of parties to lifting the skills of Australians."

Sharan Burrow from the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU) believes that working together with industry is necessary if realistic and impacting changes are to come about.

"Australia's skills shortage needs to be addressed urgently through improvements in the provision of vocational education and training. Greater industry involvement in this is essential if real improvements in delivery and outcomes are to be achieved," Burrow emphasises.


The most chronic skills shortages are in professions like health (nursing), IT, engineering and mining.

The Collaboration will work with the Rudd Federal Government to achieve the increase quality of skills and trained, productive workers that Australia needs.

On Sunday (April 20th), The Institute for Trade Skills Excellence issued its response to this Ten-Point Plan. Taking Burrow's comment into consideration - that our country's skills shortages need to be addressed urgently through greater industry involvement in the provision of vocational education and training - CEO Brian Wexham emphasised that Australia's best TAFEs are world-beaters in terms of how well they serve industry's needs.

He acknowledged that there are many areas in which major improvements could be made, but still "the best training providers are judged by industry to be very good indeed," argues Mr Wexham, who is here referring to the Institute's Star Rating Scheme, under which specific areas in a TAFE or private-training provider are rated by industry experts.

"The Star Rating Scheme has proven that industry and training providers can work very well together", says Wexham, with the reason for the Scheme being so effective being due to the fact that it was developed by industry, for industry, and the assessments are carried out by people working in the respective skills area.

"This initiative of The Institute cuts exactly to the Government's focus on productivity. It gives me great pleasure to see the announcement of the Ten-Point Plan, and The Institute looks forward to extending its contribution to a skilled Australian workforce by continuing to recognise the very best of training providers, and raising the bar on quality," Mr Wexham said.

Excellence in training is also recognised by the Institute's Australian Trade Teacher of the Year award, with industry identifying the most innovative and focused teacher in each industry area. A prestigious acknowledgment it is - with last year's national winner being invited to be one of the participant's in Rudd's 2020 Summit.


Yeah, lot's of barriers being put up by the unions here. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
 

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