13
   

Being wrong for the right reasons...

 
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 01:39 pm
Okay, so what if the vote was 6 to 6 and Barry voted the way he wanted to? What then?

I'm sure his constituents make sure he isn't reelected. I'm sure they elect someone who is ideologically more alligned with them regarding gay rights.

It seems gay rights might have won the battle but lost the war.

By voting the way he did he retained the trust of his constituents and is in a better position to work to change their attitude.

I still don't think Barry made the right decision, but I do think he made the smart decision.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 02:18 pm
@boomerang,
Maybe, but it seems to me like he loses anyway. In this particular case, he's firmly stated his support for gay marriage. Those vehemently against gay marriage aren't going to believe he's changed his mind. I think they will support a more radical opponent regardless. A few might be happy that he can be strong-armed. Those constituents (and there are many in DC besides those represented by the black ministers present at the meeting) who support gay marriage might now see Barry as someone who could have won the battle, but instead surrendered and can't be trusted to follow through on his rhetoric. It seems to me like he loses the battle, loses the war and has to look at himself in the mirror knowing he could have made a difference.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 02:46 pm
@engineer,
I looked up the DC city council. Barry is the councilman for the 8th ward. So I looked up the 8th ward. The first link on the page starts like this:

Quote:
We lock the doors of our car from the inside as we cross
the Anacostia River going eastward. We are now in a supposedly
no-go area for whites. A district with 77,000 inhabitants
(over 90% black) of which even a black policeman tells us he
would not enter unarmed at night. This is a district where
more than 3.000 people have been murdered since 1960.
Where in one summer evening in 2007, four different shootings
led to eight victims within two hours. This is a district
of which a former criminal says, “When we see teenagers, we
cross the street. That is how scared we are of our kids.”


Only every second resident has a job. Every third lives below
the poverty line. Two out of three children grow up without
their father. Nowhere else in the city are there as many high
school dropouts (34%) and as many overweight people (71%,
33% of them obese). We are in the capital of the richest country
in the world: Washington, DC. However, this is a place
where tourists and even most Congressmen never venture.
Even some of the city’s street maps do not clearly detail this
district. We fi nd ourselves in the infamous Ward 8 district in
Southeast DC, one and a half miles from the Capitol. The 8th
Ward leads nearly in every negative statistic of Washington’s
eight districts. Ward 7, which neighbors the 8th Ward, follows
a close second.


Originally, we had planned to write a report on the forgotten
people and the misery that exists in the shadow of the Capitol.
Three months and countless rides across the Anacostia
River later, during which nothing bad ever happened to us,
we are coming to the conclusion: We are a few years too late ➟


to write the report we had envisioned. It is still dangerous
here, and the high levels of poverty and desperation are
striking, but: the Ward 8 is changing. Only its reputation
has remained the same. We have since decided to write a
report about change and how such change can materialize.
What roles do civil engagement, careful city planning,
and free market forces play? For one man this
answer is simple: Washington DC’s former two-time
Mayor Marion Barry (1979"1991 and 1995"1999), who
has been the Councilmember of Ward 8 since 2004: “My
leadership”.


I haven't read the whole paper (and don't know if I will) but I did read enough to see that Barry (who won with 96% of the vote) has made some positive changes in the lives of a disenfranchised group of people.

http://www.fesdc.org/documents/MiseryandChange_final_003.pdf

Maybe he is just playing politics and they'll ditch him at their next chance or maybe he does really work for the people of Ward 8.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 02:52 pm
@boomerang,
I thought this was interesting, from Ta-Nehisi Coates:

Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote:
one of his commenters on a previous post wrote:
Focusing on Barry's opposition to recognizing gay marriage causes us to miss the forest for the trees; in a majority black city with a majority black political leadership, the City Council voted overwhelmingly (12 to 1) IN SUPPORT of recognizing gay marriage (albeit ones performed outside of DC). This represents a great political victory for the gay rights movements, and refutes the meme which claims that the African-American community is monolithically, implacably, and irresolutely opposed to recognizing gay civil marriage.


I don't think that can be said loudly enough. There are 12 members of the City Council. Seven of them are black. One is Marion Barry. To anyone who's followed Barry's career, I'm not sure why "Marion Barry Is A Demagogue" is breaking news. It's really wrong to erase the other six votes on that measure, and make Barry the face of blacks on the Council, and blacks in the City.


http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/05/another_point_on_barry_and_gays.php
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 03:05 pm
@sozobe,
Quote:
and refutes the meme which claims that the African-American community is monolithically, implacably, and irresolutely opposed to recognizing gay civil marriage


I don't know if the majority of black people are irresolutely opposed to gay marriage or not, but I don't think this comment refutes anything because we don't know if the other councilmembers voted with our against their constituents.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 03:31 pm
@boomerang,
Yeah, I've been looking that up.

Harry Thomas Jr. voted "yes," is black, and his ward (5) is the second-poorest Ward after Ward 8 -- I can't find any racial demographics (just economic) but from references to it, it seems to also be a majority-black ward. Haven't found anything about Thomas' constituents being mad at him, though of course it's possible that I'm just not finding it, rather than that they're not mad at him.

That's all kind of an aside, though, not a direct claim--> refute sort of thing. Your post reminded me of Coates' point, which I thought was a good one.

Anyway... we've gotten away from "right reasons" and towards "smart reasons." I still think that there isn't some blanket rightness about politicians voting for what (they think that) the majority of their constituents want, no matter what the issue may be.

If we must hold both the euthanasia guy and Barry to the same narrow standard -- and I'd prefer something less rigid, especially something that takes into account the end result -- I'd come down on the side of saying that if the euthanasia guy (sorry I forgot his name) really strongly personally opposed euthanasia, he either shouldn't have signed it or else should have recused himself. Not that Barry did the right thing by going against his own long-standing beliefs and actions in an attempt to stay in power.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 03:54 pm
@sozobe,
I think this particular case if very interesting because Barry's approval rating is not going to disappear because he votes his conscience on this issue. After all, the vote was 12-1. If he had voted his standard position, it would have been 13-0 and he's just one councilman in a pack. By voting the other way, he is actually making himself stand out. No one would have commented if he voted yes, it wouldn't have even been news. By voting no, he's positioned himself for something. Some of us will say he's a champion for the people, some will say he's a hypocrite, but everyone's talking about him. I wonder if he's considering a run for mayor again. Is that allowed in DC or is he term limited?
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 04:00 pm
@engineer,
Yeah, that's definitely my take on it at this point -- not necessarily that he's trying to run for mayor again (although he evidently is trying to distance himself from Fenty/ claim a different demographic), but that he saw this as an opportunity to make some headlines and get some attention. And that his motivation was more about that, ultimately, than either his personal beliefs or a desire to honor his constituents' (differing) beliefs.
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 10:28 pm

I'm sure someone will point out what i've missed, but i really don't get one thing.
If most of his constituents are black, and against gay rights, and Barry has always been for gay rights, how did he get elected there in the first place?

His remarks seem a bit ...off, to me.
"All hell is going to break loose."
"We may have a civil war. "
"The black community is just adamant against this.''

Okay - so its an important and heated topic.
But he knew which way the vote was going.
If he was really concerned with helping the black community come to terms with the passing of the bill, why put an element of doubt in their minds as to the justification of it, by voting against it? Especially when he wanted it!.
It has already been said that everyone was surprised by his vote - so they were expecting him to vote yes. Why then, didn't he?

Unless he was heavily petitioned and lobbied by the public (it doesn't say that but maybe he was) I don't get it.

Although i accept there is a problem, he still seems a bit presumptuous inferring black people are not only homophobic but likely to riot. He could have chosen to presume instead, that because of his having been all this time for gay rights, his constituents would accept him voting yes.

Maybe his life was threatened. It happens.

If he hadn't done a u-turn - If he'd announced that he had voted the way he truly believed was right- perhaps it still would have been okay for him. Maybe that kind of conviction was the thing about him which got them on his side in the first place.

I would think that he has made a very bad mistake - one which will lose him trust - maybe even lose him support and respect.

(Just some distant thoughts on an interesting thread)


0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2014 07:39 am
Quote:
Former DC Mayor Marion Barry Dies at 78

WASHINGTON (AP) — Former District of Columbia Mayor Marion Barry,
whose four terms were overshadowed by his 1990 arrest after being
caught on videotape smoking crack cocaine, died Sunday morning.
He was 78.

Barry D.C. council spokeswoman LaToya Foster says he died shortly
after midnight Sunday at a hospital in Washington. He had battled
kidney problems stemming from diabetes and high blood pressure
and underwent a kidney transplant in February 2009.
(globe)
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2014 08:18 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

In The Phantom Tollbooth, Norton Juster wrote:

Quote:
For you often learn more by being wrong for the right reasons than you do by being right for the wrong reasons.


I've used that as my signature line on A2K for quite some time now and today I came across something that seemed to really exemplify it. Leonard Pitts writing on Marion Barry said:

Quote:
The former mayor and current city councilman of Washington, D.C. is a longtime supporter of gay rights. So observers were stunned last week when a bill committing the city to recognize same-sex marriages performed elsewhere passed the council on a vote of 12-1.

The ''one'' was Barry.

Wait, it gets worse. Barry said his position hasn't changed but warned that the council needs to move slowly on this issue. ''All hell is going to break loose,'' Barry said. ''We may have a civil war. The black community is just adamant against this.'' Indeed, after the vote, a group of black ministers reportedly ''stormed'' the hallway outside the council chambers, vowing political reprisals.

The Washington Post quotes Barry as saying he voted as he did because ''I am representing my constituents.'' He reminded reporters that ``98 percent of my constituents are black, and we don't have but a handful of openly gay residents.''

That's a lot of words to say what he could have said in three: I punked out.

There's something to be said for representing one's constituents. But there is more to be said for leading them. Barry's failure to understand the difference is galling in light of the fact that he was once a leader in the civil-rights movement.

Read all about it: http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/leonard-pitts/story/1039247.html


I was reminded of when then governer of Oregon, John Kitzhaber, signed our Physician Assisted Suicide bill into law even though he, as an emergency room physician, opposed the law.

I respected his decision to sign, the people who voted him into office wanted the law passed, it shouldn't matter what he wanted.

I think the role of an elected official is to represent his constituents.

Even though I disagree with Mr. Barry's vote, I respect his reasons for making it.

What do you think?
I AGREE with what u said, boomer, 1OO%!

To have done differently is to be DISLOYAL TO DEMOCRACY,
even tho he runs on the Democratic Party.
He 'd have BETRAYED the voters who elected him to office.


Note that I also agree
with the quoted material attributed to Barry.




Does anyone know what it means to "punk out" ?????????





David
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2014 11:05 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. was appointed one of the four police commissioners of New York in the 1880s. There were two from each party. He was probably the most active of the four, and quickly drew public attention. At that time, New York had a "Sunday blue law," which meant you couldn't serve beer or other strong drinks on a Sunday. Taverns put out a few sandwiches, called it a meal, and poured the beers as fast as they could, claiming they were only serving a beverage with a meal. Roosevelt made the cops go in and shut these people down, and the city howled. The city also changed its ordinance. Roosevelt's comment was that the quickest way to get rid of a bad law is to enforce it.


Sorry for responding and getting off topic, but what an interesting piece of history.

As far as decision of the mayor goes, it is somewhat tricky. What if an elected official is morally against abortion, a bill comes up which restricts abortion rights? Does he go with his conscience or what most of his constituent's want? Or does he go with already established court rulings on the subject?

Or say his constituents were for gay marriage rights but he was against them, does he go against his morally held beliefs or what his constituents want? If he goes against, what is the difference in the reverse?
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2014 11:42 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Quote:
Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. was appointed one of the four police commissioners of New York in the 1880s. There were two from each party. He was probably the most active of the four, and quickly drew public attention. At that time, New York had a "Sunday blue law," which meant you couldn't serve beer or other strong drinks on a Sunday. Taverns put out a few sandwiches, called it a meal, and poured the beers as fast as they could, claiming they were only serving a beverage with a meal. Roosevelt made the cops go in and shut these people down, and the city howled. The city also changed its ordinance. Roosevelt's comment was that the quickest way to get rid of a bad law is to enforce it.


Sorry for responding and getting off topic, but what an interesting piece of history.

As far as decision of the mayor goes, it is somewhat tricky. What if an elected official is morally against abortion, a bill comes up which restricts abortion rights? Does he go with his conscience or what most of his constituent's want? Or does he go with already established court rulings on the subject?

Or say his constituents were for gay marriage rights but he was against them,
does he go against his morally held beliefs or what his constituents want?
If he goes against, what is the difference in the reverse?
In response to your questions,
the expressed Barry filosofy was to REPRESENT THE VOTERS WHO ELECTED HIM.
0 Replies
 
carloslebaron
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2014 03:12 pm
@boomerang,
I know Marion Barry. I know all the tricks he used to get re-elected several times.

In this case, he indeed voted in base of what his constituents want in their city, while the rest of city counsel members voted for what they think, for what they feel, for what they can get profit from (cuts when voting in favor of gay marriage), voted for anything but the will of the people.

In reality, sodomites and lesbians will always be a separated social class in societies. To say the contrary is lying to yourselves. Always, without exception, dudes in the work places will laugh at the cost of the dude who is known as homosexual, and this reality will never change.

Laws can obligate to accept people with different sexual preferences in schools and work places, that is fine, but laughs can't be stopped on the backs of sodomites and lesbians, here in the US and everywhere around the world.

So, yes, homosexuals are getting more privileges in societies, but they still are the joke, the mockery, the "not in my backyard" for straight people... even between family members, the straight ones make jokes on their homosexual brothers, cousins, etc...

Marion Barry was right for the right reasons.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2014 03:49 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Maybe, but it seems to me like he loses anyway.
He voted the way that his constituents WANTED.
HOW can that be a loss????? He did his job.



engineer wrote:
In this particular case, he's firmly stated his support for gay marriage.
Yea, but he PROVED
that he was representing the voters, NOT his own personal views.
That means he is TRUSTWORTHY.


engineer wrote:
Those vehemently against gay marriage aren't going to believe he's changed his mind.
Thay know that he SUBORDINATES his personal views
to those of his voters; that 's loyalty, Engineer.


engineer wrote:
I think they will support a more radical opponent regardless.
A few might be happy that he can be strong-armed.
Those constituents (and there are many in DC besides those
represented by the black ministers present at the meeting) who
support gay marriage might now see Barry as someone who could
have won the battle, but instead surrendered and can't be trusted
to follow through on his rhetoric.
WHAT "rhetoric"???
Did he promise something to the gays????
He said that he is representing the blacks, not the gays.




engineer wrote:
It seems to me like he loses the battle, loses the war and has to look
at himself in the mirror knowing he could have made a difference.
It seems to me that u r indulging in your own wishful thinking.

My own position on this is largely neutral indifference.
I don t care whether thay get married or not; none of my business.
I guess I 'd let them have our legal recognition; its harmless.
I don 't represent the blacks.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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