Should we prosecute torture as a war crime?

White House lawyers have the authority to interpret the law in the same manner as anybody has the authority to interpret the law. That doesn't mean, however, that the WH lawyers' interpretation is correct or authoritative or entitled to any deference or weight.

So then you do agree that Obama was responsible for the decision to buzz New York City with AF1, just to get some pictures.

After all, the person who OK'ed it was part of the executive branch.

Your argument basically boils down to:

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Well, despite the evidence and the logic, you can't prove that Bush authorized torture, so he categorically did not do so.

This is fallacious. Either Bush or those in his cabinet - Cheney - authorized torture. Bush either did it himself personally or authorized others to make executive decisions for him. Either way, those responsible should be investigated, tried, and if found guilty, punished, for breaking the law.

There is ample evidence that the administration knew they were engaging in torture - in some of their memos they forgot to use the EI dodge and plainly called it that. See:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/bush-memo-footnotes-defin_n_188008.html

As for the jurisdiction issue, I would remind you that the same treaty Congress extended to cover non-US sites in 1994 already prohibited torture on US sites. The location of the torture was immaterial.

Additionally, evidence has emerged which strongly suggests that Cheney ordered the torture to take place in large part to attempt to establish a link between AQ and Iraq and justify the war; NOT to stop a 'ticking time bomb' or any of that bullshit. See:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/05/21/cheney_and_the_iraq-torture_link_96602.html

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May 21, 2009
Cheney and the Iraq-Torture Link
By Joe Conason

...

Cheney has since admitted that there was no link. But there is little doubt that he tortured people to try and establish one.

I will accept your premise that it is difficult to prove Bush's complicity in this, though he doubtlessly was complicit, due to his protected role as President. Cheney, however; I think you would have a much harder time making the case that Cheney did not personally know of and approve torture of prisoners in US custody. And he should be investigated, tried, and if found guilty, punished for this, no matter what he claims the reasons were.

Cycloptichorn

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It clearly does. Mr. Bush was responsible for all actions officially sanctioned by the executive branch.

Will you agree that the same thing holds true for the Obama admin?
Is Obama responsible for all actions officially sanctioned by the executive branch?

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It clearly does. Mr. Bush was responsible for all actions officially sanctioned by the executive branch.

Will you agree that the same thing holds true for the Obama admin?
Is Obama responsible for all actions officially sanctioned by the executive branch?

So then you do agree that Obama was responsible for the decision to buzz New York City with AF1, just to get some pictures.

After all, the person who OK'ed it was part of the executive branch.

You are saying GW Bush is certainly not legally responsible for any/all actions officially sanctioned by the executive branch.

WASHINGTON " As the Justice Department considers whether to investigate alleged harsh interrogation practices sanctioned by the Bush administration, sources say a soon-to-be-released report by the CIA's inspector general reveals that agency interrogators conducted mock executions of terror suspects.

These latest allegations are contained in a 2004 report that has been kept secret and is to be released next week, two congressional officials told The Associated Press. They spoke late Friday on condition of anonymity because the report has not yet been cleared for release.

Threatening a prisoner with death violates U.S. anti-torture laws.

In one case, interrogators brought a gun and power drill into a session with suspected Cole bomber Abd al Rahim al-Nashiri, the report says. The suicide bombing of the warship USS Cole killed 17 U.S. sailors in Yemen in 2000.

Only in an unofficial sense. He cannot be prosecuted in court for crimes which there is no admissible evidence he participated in himself. Is this not obvious?

mysteryman wrote:

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It clearly does. Mr. Bush was responsible for all actions officially sanctioned by the executive branch.

Will you agree that the same thing holds true for the Obama admin?
Is Obama responsible for all actions officially sanctioned by the executive branch?

Yes, he is. He bears responsibility for actions taken by the Exec. branch. That's how responsibility works.

And yes, he is responsible for the NYC plane flyover. Once again, that is how responsibility works.

Cycloptichorn

So: there's no evidence he did, so he didn't.

Right, just to let you know, there is a flying gorilla called Wilburforce who pushes the moon around the Earth, except he's invisible and can become insubstantial whenever he's being detected. You can't prove it isn't true, so it must be true.

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Only in an unofficial sense. He cannot be prosecuted in court for crimes which there is no admissible evidence he participated in himself. Is this not obvious?

This has to be the most pathetic argument to defend Bush I have read in all the years I have been here in a2k and there have been some doozies.

So: there's no evidence he did, so he didn't.

Right, just to let you know, there is a flying gorilla called Wilburforce who pushes the moon around the Earth, except he's invisible and can become insubstantial whenever he's being detected. You can't prove it isn't true, so it must be true.

So then you do agree that Obama was responsible for the decision to buzz New York City with AF1, just to get some pictures.

After all, the person who OK'ed it was part of the executive branch.

I'm listening.