Soros profitting from your loss

@parados,

parados wrote:

It's almost as if gungasnakkee and H2OMan are so UNAmerican they would be willing to attack the President and his policies during time of war.

right. instead of helping our president, they save their manly love and adoration for these haters of all things good and pure and of value.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3111/3140353932_d5d100494d.jpg?v=0

i can only hope that the ministry of homeland securities and exchange round these radical rabble rousers up soon. there are cages with their names on 'em down at gitmo.

u.s.a. number one, ya little creeps!!!!!!

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@joefromchicago,

Quote:

But at least I don't hate America, like you and gungasnaKKKe.

Dumb question here, Joe from Chicago.....

Japanese scientists are actually talking about cloning mammoth elephants and the last ones of those died several thousand years ago with the possible exception of some small group of leftovers which might have died shortly after Europeans go to North America.

Have the city fathers of Chicago given any thought to the possibility of digging up whatever might be left of Al Capone and trying to clone him??

I mean, compared to what the Chicago political system is producing these days, Capone would be a breath of fresh air.

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@gungasnake,

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA, GUNGASNAKKKE???

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I never understood what's so immoral about betting the market will go down. What's the big moral difference between that and betting the market will go up?

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@Thomas,

Apparently doing it on a certain scale can SEND the market up or down, particularly if no collateral or any such is required.

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@gungasnake,

No one can make a trade in the market without collateral gunga. Something that is referred to as "margin".

They can short shares without borrowing the shares (naked short) but they have to have money in an account on order to sell the shares. If their account doesn't cover losses they incur on paper then they will get a margin call.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

I never understood what's so immoral about betting the market will go down. What's the big moral difference between that and betting the market will go up?

Is the above question equal to a red-herring, in that while both bets might be morally equal, are both bets morally good in all opinions? Society has not legalized betting everywhere for the reason that betting is not a priori morally good in everyone's opinion.

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Why are you picking on Soros? He was what, fourth on the list? What I don't like is that the Obama plan will if it "works" make hedge fund managers hugely rich, we will be close to creating American oligarchs much as Russia did when they sold off the Soviet assets for a song. This will not end good. The will of the people is to spread the wealth around to the people more than was done during the leveraging of America, not less as this would do. We don't need twenty Bill Gates to be created in the next ten years, fire sales of American assets should be avoided, not rushed into. It would have been much better the nationalize the assets now, rather than sell them for 45 cents on the dollar or what ever they end up going for.

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@gungasnake,

Collateral only makes a difference when you are losing a bet -- which Soros, by your description, does not. If you are making a bet and you are winning, what difference could collateral possibly make?

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@Foofie,

That is an independent point, Foofie, and applies both to betting on a rise and a fall in the market. My point about Soros is, nobody had a problem when a bunch of cheerleaders bet on the market to rise. So why is it a problem when Soros is betting the market down?

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@Thomas,

Quote:

That is an independent point, Foofie, and applies both to betting on a rise and a fall in the market. My point about Soros is, nobody had a problem when a bunch of cheerleaders bet on the market to rise. So why is it a problem when Soros is betting the market down?

YOu can not both claim to believe in capitalism and also believe that short sellers are bad or evil. Just as science cares nothing about morals and cares only for the truth, capitalists can not let take their eye of of the true value of things. The whole system breaks down if they do. This idea that we can pretend about monetary values is an off shoot of this nutty idea that moderns have that they can change behaviour by making laws, and change beliefs by enforcing political correctness. It is the crippling inability to tell the difference between reality and fantasy.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

That is an independent point, Foofie, and applies both to betting on a rise and a fall in the market. My point about Soros is, nobody had a problem when a bunch of cheerleaders bet on the market to rise. So why is it a problem when Soros is betting the market down?

Because, I believe, that it might start a snowball rolling downhill, so to speak. I think selling short should just be outlawed. The stock market should not be a betting parlor, in my opinion.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

It appears that Soros has managed to manipulate both our political system and stock market for his own profit; that assuredly should not be possible.

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

It appears that Soros has managed to manipulate both our political system and stock market for his own profit; that assuredly should not be possible.

He is not, I believe, the author of any ideology. He may subscribe to a specific ideology that already exists, and has its own following already. The fact that he has money to promulgate the ideology is just how the world works - and it always did.

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

It appears that Soros has managed to manipulate both our political system and stock market for his own profit; that assuredly should not be possible.

didn't hear you complain when it was mellon-scaife using his money and influence to back the arkansas project.

btw, gunga. how do you square your ethic against cheney manipulating a war with iraq in order to funnel all of those no bid contracts to halliburton/kbr ?

and blackwater ? who was it that decided to privatize american military power? could it possibly have been the prince brothers acting in collusion?

oh, yeah... and cheney's energy task force? the one that he will not, not, talk about? hmmmm.... so while doing all in his power to kill off alternative energy, the big oil companies raise the price of gas, make record profits of tens of billions of dollars q after q; and bush declares following an exhaustive 24 hour investigation of the oil boys, that there is no gouging. wtf???

i don't see how you could be true to your statement and not be outraged by the bush/cheney mafia's complete manipulation of every possible resource and political situation to benefit themselves and their big corporate buddies.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

I never understood what's so immoral about betting the market will go down. What's the big moral difference between that and betting the market will go up?

None whatsoever. There is no reason to place more restrictions on the predatory pessimism of the short-seller than there are on the irrational exuberance of the long-buyer.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Quote:

It appears that Soros has managed to manipulate both our political system and stock market for his own profit; that assuredly should not be possible.

You say it appears. Would you care to tell us about the evidence according to which it appars that way?

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@Thomas,

Your not going to ask for evidence of the pink elephants in pajamas that appear to gunga, are you?

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@joefromchicago,

Quote:

There is no reason to place more restrictions on the predatory pessimism of the short-seller than there are on the irrational exuberance of the long-buyer.

Not to forget, optimism is just as predatory as pessimism. No matter which way you bet, one speculator's gain is always another speculator's loss, with no immediate consequence for anyone but the speculators. There is no direct effect of speculation on the workers, lenders, and customers of the companies whose stocks are being speculated on. Not even on the buy-and-hold investors, for speculation doesn't affect the companies' balance sheets, either.

Speculation, in the context of our current economic crisis, is nothing but a red herring. The only reason it's coming up as a scapegoat these days is to resolve the cognitive dissonance between the movement conservatives' unquestioning faith in the market and the fact that bad things are happening in financial markets right now.

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@parados,

When he starts talking about them, I will.

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Soros profitting from your loss

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