Songs celebrating immigrants for St Patrick's day.

Whether or not i am "welcome" to do so, i am free to point out just how disgusting the commercial Irish are, and all that they attempt to pass off as Irish "culture."

1 Reply

@Setanta,

splain what is meant by "commercial Irish"?

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@farmerman,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCcPRroLgzE

Wink

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Of course the Italians and Irish stood together. They had common experiences, common aspirations and common foes. Irish and Italians ended up working together politically and socially.

In what city(ies) common experiences? The Irish were unionizing the trades, and some Italians became scab labor. The Irish were loyal to the Democratic Party, and some Italians then became Republicans. The Irish sent their children to Parochial school, and many Italians sent their children to public schools. They sometimes promulgated pejorative canards about each other's ethnicity.

There might be more small businesses with Jewish and Italian shared owners, than Irish and Italian shared owners.

They are both Catholic. However, more Irish married males go to Church, I believe, than Italian married males.

The Irish (Americans) have a tradition of going into the military as a career; not so I believe with Italian Americans.

The Irish built the American Catholic Church. The Italians did not.

These two ethnicities have their own cultures and cuisines. They tend to be most comfortable in their own respective culture.

The only interesting thing is that Saint Patrick was a Roman.

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As a boy I was repeatedly assured that there were just two kinds of people in this world - Irish Catholics and poor desperate souls who wished they were. It was usually said with a wink, but it set the tone. By the time I realized it wasn't true, I no longer gave a damn.

e.brown has it wrong -- there wasn't much affinity between the Irish and the "eye talians " as they were called. Same with the Poles. The common religion didn't count for much -- though it went without saying that they were less hateful than WASPs. Oddly we got on better with the Jews - perhaps it was the contrasting manners and affectations. Though a friend who grew up on the upper west side of Manhattan tells me it was quite the reverse there. I believe most of this stuff had to do with competition for the next rung on the social/economic ladder.

Tomorrow I'm going to a lunch held by the "Irish, Italian, Israeli" club in San Francisco - a local institution. The members are mostly judges, lawyers and financial types, but most of their fathers were cops, longshoremen, and shopkeepers.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

e.brown has it wrong -- there wasn't much affinity between the Irish and the "eye talians " as they were called. Same with the Poles. The common religion didn't count for much -- though it went without saying that they were less hateful than WASPs. Oddly we got on better with the Jews - perhaps it was the contrasting manners and affectations. Though a friend who grew up on the upper west side of Manhattan tells me it was quite the reverse there. I believe most of this stuff had to do with competition for the next rung on the social/economic ladder.

I will offer my own opinion (aka, analysis) regarding the above. People do not like to be looked down on. Perhaps, the oftentimes collective thinking was that Protestants looked down on ethnic Catholics, true or not. And, Jews did not give that impression.

I do believe that many an American (secular) Jew grew up with the subtle teaching that WASP's are to be the role-model for Jews becoming Americanized. Perhaps, this related back, in some degree, to the European experience where Catholic countries had a long history of popular culture anti-Semitism?

I do believe more ethnic Americans should learn to show gratitude to WASP's for giving them such a lovely, wealthy, strong country to be part of. While some criticize Israel for being ethnocentric in its society, I think Catholic Europe effected that also. Only the U.S.A., under the tutelage of WASP's seemed to have developed a nation that affords "others" with so much. I for one am not an ingrate!

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Those who make an indecently good living selling bullshit stereotypes to Irish-American suckers who think "The Wearin' o' the Green" is a great song.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Those who make an indecently good living selling bullshit stereotypes to Irish-American suckers who think "The Wearin' o' the Green" is a great song.

Amen. I would also add many popular and saccharine renditions of 'Danny Boy' to the list.

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@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

Example 3, this time on EDIT: MODERATOR: PERSONAL INFORMATION REMOVED respect for the law:
http://able2know.org/topic/72011-275#post-3547104
............

Whoever this moderator is cannot be Jespah - she knows that Mr Brown-Munoz used to sign all his posts with his real name (i.e. NO personal information is disclosed by posting said name) prior to his screen name for the first year or so after he joined this site.

Please look up his early posts BEFORE you start editing anyone else's - or just plain ask Jespah to tell you.

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@georgeob1,

Don't we all love this one?

(aside to High Seas; not certain about your meaning)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtCNnyxlJt0

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

I would also add many popular and saccharine renditions of 'Danny Boy' to the list.

Oh yeah . . . i almost threw up when i read that . . .

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@Foofie,

To this day the Russians share an affinity with Irish. They share
1 penchants toward alcoholism
2 a literature of suffering
3 a celebration of despair,

So its quite common to see phoney "Irish" pubs many in Russian Cities

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

To this day the Russians share an affinity with Irish. They share
1 penchants toward alcoholism
2 a literature of suffering
3 a celebration of despair,

So its quite common to see phoney "Irish" pubs many in Russian Cities

Perhaps, it should be added that both groups collectively admire education. And, they both collectively feel that their religion is the "true" version of Christianity. My opinion only.

However, Irish are not known to get "domestically violent" when drunk.
Also, for many years the Lord Mayor of Dublin was Jewish; would that happen in a Russian capital - puh-lease.

1 Reply

@Letty,

Hi Letty, good to see you as always. Some do-gooder ignoramus decided to edit my posts in the mistaken belief that I was disclosing someone else's personal information. Possibly the person is too dense to figure out this was never the case, even after my detailed explanation, but in any event it's too minor a matter to bother proving further. On to important stuff: any new poems from you? Post links!

1 Reply

@High Seas,

I'll PM you, High Seas

1 Reply

@Foofie,

HAve you ever been to Russia?. If so, please explain your theory of why there are so many Irish "pubs" in the country?

Also, when you talk about Jews in the country , ere you limiting your statement to Tsarist Russia or some part of their later hitory?

No matter, I wsnt aiming for education in my post, I was sort of aiming at lightness and humor.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

HAve you ever been to Russia?. If so, please explain your theory of why there are so many Irish "pubs" in the country?

Also, when you talk about Jews in the country , ere you limiting your statement to Tsarist Russia or some part of their later hitory?

No matter, I wsnt aiming for education in my post, I was sort of aiming at lightness and humor.

Why would I go to Russia? My grandparents in the late 1800's were happy to get out of there. I would be stupid, in my opinion, to visit that country.

I am not sure what the rest of your post above refers to. That is okay; this is/was a Saint Patrick's Day thread, anyway.

1 Reply

@Letty,

High Seas wrote:

but I find this fake, flake, liar, fraud, and accomplice of criminals so sickening ...

Letty,

A flaw in the ignore feature is that when you interact with people I have on ignore, I end up reading anyway. Obviously High Seas has some issues (and I will try to do a better job not clicking ignored posts).

I understand why celebrating immigrants may be provocative. I understand why some have expressed skepticism with the idea that Irish and Italian immigrants might have had similar experiences. I even accept Setanta's rather strong objection which he was able to express without name-calling or personal attack. Setanta and I have often been able to disagree without disrespect.

I don't mind High Seas in spite of the name calling. I figure the more angry conservatives get, the better it is for those of us on the other side. Anyone who makes me look reasonable is alright in my book.

For the record, I remain civil.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

Why would I go to Russia? My grandparents in the late 1800's were happy to get out of there. I would be stupid, in my opinion, to visit that country

.

MIne too. My great grandfather walked out of Ukraine carrying my grandfather in 1890's. I found Russia fascinating , I was there on work assignement and for trips to meet other workers in my field. WHen govts dont get in the way, people can get a lot accomplished. The back country is beautiful .

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Songs celebrating immigrants for St Patrick's day.

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