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Don’t want to be discriminated...

 
 
Liat
 
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 10:41 am
Shalom! I am Ashkenazi Jew and I live in Israel. I want to say that life of an Ashkenazi Jew in Israel is tough. Sephardi Jews treat us as though we were unworthy people. Some second-rate class. Even in synagogue Ashkenazi have to stand apart from all other members of the community as if we are dirty black sheep. That will do it! Why should we live in Israel? We don’t want to be discriminated anymore. Our homeland should be not Israel but Europe! Granted that territorial changes are taking place in Europe (yes they do, the case of Kosovo is an instance but it won’t end with it) we ask to allow us some territory, say, part of Poland. That will be fair as Poland is guilty of taking part in Holocaust! In case Polish government decides to allow as part of Poland, the Polish people will purify their guilt!
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,227 • Replies: 16
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literarypoland
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 11:29 am
Dear Liat,

I'm afraid you'll have to continue living inside Israel. It's just your nomad nature calling. Poland doesn't need Israeli immigrants - what for? to create a hostile minority?
Poles didn't take part in the Holocaust - were just armless, and such same victims as the Jews. Jews, however, were the primary target - only 5% of Polish Jews survived, and 5% of ethnic Poles died during the war.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Juden_1881.JPG
See the General Gouvernement areas.
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 11:59 am
@literarypoland,


Quote:
Poles didn't take part in the Holocaust


This absolute denial that any Poles took part in the Holocaust is ridiculous. It not only is clearly incorrect.... but it also ignores the real anti-semitism in Poland before and after the Holocaust.

I will not get into an argument that Poland is better or worse than any other country (and I certainly accept that people in my country were anti-semites).

Your absolute denial that any Poles took part in the Holocaust is pathetic.

Quote:
Poland doesn't need Israeli immigrants - what for? to create a hostile minority?


You see "Israeli immigrants" as "hostile"?

Do you see the problem here?

literarypoland
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 01:36 pm
@ebrown p,
First of all, we didn't have a collaborator government which would send trains full of Jews to gas chambers, like in France or Hungary. Concentration camps didn't have Polish guards. Holocaust was an action done by German occupation forces while the terrorized Polish population couldn't interfere.

Are Poland and Israel now hostile countries? No, we are in the same coalition. Let Poles live long in Poland, and Israelis live long in Israel.
literarypoland
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 01:41 pm
http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/MAPS/map008.gif
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 01:42 pm
@literarypoland,
literarypoland wrote:
Let Poles live long in Poland, and Israelis live long in Israel.


but no jews in poland, am i right
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 02:01 pm
I have long been under the impression that the Ashkenazi Jews are the largest ethnic group among the worldwide Jewish population--a majority of something like 75-80%?

Is that not also the case in Israel? If so, what form would any discrimination against Ashkenazi Jews take? And discrimination effected by whom?

Or is my memory re this incorrect?
0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 02:40 pm
Five'll getcha ten, "Liat" never posts again.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 02:47 pm
@George,
No, I think that would be a sucker bet George. But I'd take those odds that Liat is not an Ashkenazi Jew. Smile
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 02:54 pm
@Foxfyre,
i think liat is the current name of the suspected russian information officer
literarypoland
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 03:01 pm
40% of Jews in Israel are Sephardim, which basically means that they are Asian Jews, not Jews from Europe.
literarypoland
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 03:10 pm
@djjd62,
Jews just want compensation for lost property in Poland. We hear often they hate us, 14 million Jews against 50 million Poles worldwide. They probably hate many nations: Estonians, and Latvians, and Hungarians, and Germans, and Italians, and the French, and America for being indifferent during the Holocaust.

Once an American Jew said that he had contempt for the militaristic Israel - but am I to believe that, with all the weaponry channeled to Israel. We rather imagine that all Jews help one another, creating an invisible worldwide Amkhu network.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 03:14 pm
@literarypoland,
According to Wikipedia, the population/ethnic makeup of Israel is:
Jewish - 5,435,900 76.0%
Arab - 1,375,600 19.4%
Other - 302,400 - 4.6%

Among Jews, 68% were Sabras (Israeli-born), mostly second or third generation Israelis, and the rest are olim " 22% from Europe and the Americas, and 10% from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries.[11]

Ashkenazim (about 38% of the national population): Jews whose ancestors came from Germany, France, and Eastern Europe. Most Ashkenazi Jews that settled in Israel were from Russia, Poland, Romania, Ukraine, Germany, Hungary, Czech Republic, North America, South America, South Africa and Australia.

Mizrahim and Sephardim (about 38% of the national population): Most Jewish immigrants to Israel from Iran, Iraq, Yemen, and Syria are considered Mizrahim, and the term has come to refer to Jews whose ancestors lived in Arab or Muslim lands, but did not live in Spain or Portugal.

The word Sephardi refers to Jews whose ancestors lived in Spain and Portugal until 1492, and sometimes until later, then spread to Greece, Italy, England, the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe, as well as into the Ottoman Empire and in North Africa. Many Sephardi Jews that settled in Israel from Morocco, Algeria, Turkey and the whole Mediterranean area are descendants from migrants from Spain and Portugal. In modern Israeli Hebrew usage, this category is often included in Mizrahim.Those with origins in Muslim and Arab lands are commonly called Sephardim by their

Ashkenazi counterparts, though the majority does not descend from Iberian Jews and are best described as Mizrahi. The Jews of Iran and Iraqi Jews are always considered Mizrahi as well as the Yemenite and Omani Jews.
Italian Jews (about 1% of the national population):[citation needed] Jews whose ancestors lived mainly in central Italy. Due to its history and geographical position, Rome hosted the most ancient continuous Jewish community in Western Europe, dating back to the Roman Empire.

Indian Jews (about 1% of the national population): Jews from five distinct communities in India and also Burma, each with very different origins.
Beta Israel/Falash Mura of Ethiopia (about 2% of the national population): Jews who were initially brought to Israel during Operation Solomon and Operation Moses. Today at least 127,000 live in the country.
Note: the Greek are considered Romaniotes, and many of the Bulgarian and a portion of Latin American Jews are considered Sephardic. These groups claim distinct cultures and histories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Ethnic_groups

0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 04:09 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
i think liat is the current name of the suspected russian information officer

Yep, "Ol' Hit-and-Run".
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 05:24 pm
@literarypoland,
Funny thing. Those things you are saying about Jews...

People in the US have said (and some still say) the same things about Poles-- including the part about the Poles being part of a secret Papist network.

Ironic isn't it.

(For the record, I don't mind Poles living in my country)
literarypoland
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2009 01:46 am
@ebrown p,
After the Holocaust, we are a very homogenous society, and we have got used to it. No one wants to settle here because Poland is seen as a backwater.
0 Replies
 
FJ
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2009 11:57 am
When Jews talk about the Holocaust, any young person listening would get the impression it was only Jews that were killed. In fact MANY millions of other faiths and nationalities were killed in the Holocaust, as well as anyone and everyone Hitler deemed "sub-human" - the deformed, deaf, dumb, retarded, etc.

In the Second World War, tens of millions of soldiers and non-combatants were killed on all sides, yet when most Jewish people talk publicly about the Second World War they talk only of the Holocaust, as if the rest mattered little or nothing... yet millions of Allied and Russian soldiers (of both sexes) volunteered (or were conscripted), fought, and many died to maqke the rest of the world - including Jews - free of tyranny.

Jews who died were a small minority of the total deaths in the Second World War. Get used to it.

As to moving from Israel to another country, perhaps you should remember that your religious forebears lied, stole and cheated to get the land now known as Israel where all Jews could have a homeland. to say you are treated badly in your own country is to throw all they did on your behalf away.

Every nation and religion has people who are mistreated and denigrated. Israel and Judaism is no different, and running away is not going to solve your problems - in fact going to a different country may bring you a fresh set of problems you cannot begin to imagine.
0 Replies
 
 

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