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Paramedics decide man "not worth saving" and to claim the man was dead on arrival

 
 
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 02:55 pm
Ambulancemen ‘decided dying man not worth saving’

Quote:
Two ambulancemen have been arrested by police after they were heard allegedly discussing whether they should bother to resuscitate a disabled man who had collapsed at home and subsequently died.

Barry Baker, 59, who lived alone, had dialled 999 saying that he thought he was having a heart attack. An ambulance was sent to his house while a controller kept him talking on the line.

By the time the ambulancemen arrived at the house in Patcham, Brighton, Mr Baker had collapsed, but the telephone line was still open and was being recorded.

It is alleged that staff in the control centre heard the two medics making disparaging comments about the state of the house.

A police source, who asked not to be named, said that the ambulancemen were then heard discussing Mr Baker and saying “words to the effect that he was not worth saving”.

The source said that the two men were allegedly first heard commenting on the untidy state of the house and then saying that it was not worth bothering to resuscitate Mr Baker.

They are said to have discussed what to tell ambulance control and decided to say that Mr Baker was already dead when they got there.

The controllers were said to be so shocked by what had allegedly been said that they contacted senior managers, who called the police.

“Obviously the crew did not realise that the phone was still connected and, of course, the 999 call was recorded on tape,” the source said.
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chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 03:34 pm
I'd have to have more information to comment on this specific case.

The fact they found the house untidy is, in my opinion, irrelevant. EMS see dirty houses all the time.

Was he breathing, heart beating?....how long had he not been? We don't know how long it took the ambulance to get there, and to get in the house. He could have been beyond resusitation.

In a nursing home, if a resident who doesn't have a DNR order dies in the middle of the night, and is discovered dead while the aides or nurses are making their rounds, they are required to make resusitation attempts until the doctor is called and pronounces them dead. This is even if the person has been dead 2 or 3 hours. Reality, when this happens, the the person is really dead, they make attempts in slow motion, and not agressively.

In all, it takes all the dignity from the expired person.

I watched someone make resus attempts on a dead person, one that had no chance, and it's really sickening to watch.

Were they really negligent, or making an informed decision based on what they found when they arrived?


Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 03:38 pm
@chai2,
The only details I need:

1) He was alive when they arrived.
2) They were caught on tape saying it's not worth trying to resuscitate him and agreed to report that he was already dead.
3) He died while they neglected their duty.

The disparaging comments about the house and all can just provide context, in this case it seems like it might have been that they decided his life was not worth saving due to their assessment of his circumstances. It's not a crime or anything, but is something I consider additional evidence that these guys were callous jerks.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 03:49 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

The only details I need:

1) He was alive when they arrived.



I'm not clear that he wasn't already dead when they arrived.

In order to resusitate someone, obviously he could not be breathing, and his heart would not be beating.

You cannot resusitate someone who is still alive.

It doesn't say he was just unconscious. If he was they would have loaded him up and took him off to the hospital.

If he was alive, they could be charged with manslaughter I suppose, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

If the body showed signs of having been dead a significant amount of time, it may (and it may not) have been their call to make. I don't know what parameters they are allowed to make decisions in.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 03:50 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Well, I suspect it WILL be an alleged crime if they are found not to have attempted resus based on poor house-keeping.

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