Shirakawasuna
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Jan, 2009 11:21 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote failure!

OmSigDAVID wrote:
It did not matter,
because there was danger that Saddam woud nuke one of our
port cities, at a time convenient to him (SURPRIZE!!) with a nuke that did not necessarily
emanate directly from Iraq. Boats can come from a lot of places.
Saddam was an intolerable risk; a vindictive homicidal maniac
with a grudge against us and access to nukes.


You can't be serious. I refuse to believe, for now, that anyone could so perfectly mimic a stupid conservative. I call Poe's Law for politics.

If you can convince me that you're not trolling, I'll reply to the rest.
0 Replies
 
Shirakawasuna
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jan, 2009 11:24 pm
@okie,
Sounds like the irrational fear of Obama is sticking with a lot of conservatives. I'd like to see some half-reasonable evidence that Obama is a 'Palestinian sympathizer', which unless it means someone sympathetic to the Palestinian situation (in which case almost all the Republicans in office qualify), is pure bullshit.

I'm guessing you'll just call that 'liberal lies' and move on to find something that jives with the conservative hate machine instead, though.
0 Replies
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jan, 2009 11:35 pm
Does anyone realise how dumb you are making America look?
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 05:17 am
@Fountofwisdom,


The irrational election of inexperienced Obama made America look dumb to the rest of the world.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 06:49 am
Davids responses show an irrational adherence to the myth that Saddam HAD nukes. His(Saddam's)weapons program was so disorganized and scattered that he would need another 10 or so years at least to even have the rudiments for testing a nuke.
Then, what the Bush admin did to the legacy of someone like SCott Ritter is an example of how deceit can be used as an effective foreign policy element. Ritter said that WMDs were in a state of disarray and he was villified and made to look like a traitor, with lies about his taking "Bribes" from Saddam's regime. All this was dropped when the march to Bagdhad began.

Davids arguments begin with a ridiculous proposition and then continue on as an extension of logic.Sort of the nuclear equivalent of gungasnork's argument that: "Antediluvian cities occur on the coastal plain of North America, and scholars are finding that these antediluvian cities were wiped out by the Noachian Flood"
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 08:05 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:



The irrational election of inexperienced Obama made America
look dumb to the rest of the world.

Yes, but that 's the LEAST of it.
Cosmetic appearances don t matter.
The opinions of "the rest of the world" don 't matter
and are of no effect.

What counts is that the presidency has fallen into the hands
of a marxist, during a very opportune time for the marxist:
a degree of ecomomic turbulence that will be used to justify
expansion of government jurisdiction, at the expense of
Individualism, the concept of laissez faire freedom of contract
and libertarianism.

He WILL do whatever he can (with Demo. control of both houses of Congress)
to effect a marxist re-distribution of wealth.






Our heritage of personal freedom has perished.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 08:25 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Davids responses show an irrational adherence to the myth that Saddam HAD nukes. His(Saddam's)weapons program was so disorganized and scattered that he would need another 10 or so years at least to even have the rudiments for testing a nuke.
Then, what the Bush admin did to the legacy of someone like SCott Ritter is an example of how deceit can be used as an effective foreign policy element. Ritter said that WMDs were in a state of disarray and he was villified and made to look like a traitor, with lies about his taking "Bribes" from Saddam's regime. All this was dropped when the march to Bagdhad began.

Davids arguments begin with a ridiculous proposition and then continue on as an extension of logic.Sort of the nuclear equivalent of gungasnork's argument that: "Antediluvian cities occur on the coastal plain of North America, and scholars are finding that these antediluvian cities were wiped out by the Noachian Flood"

No.

Farmer, it is not my position that under Saddam's leadership,
Iraq ever became a nuclear power; this did not happen,
but that fact woud not restrain Saddam from buying a mini-nuke
(or several of them) from Red China, India, maybe Pakistan,
or more likely next door from Russian half-starving army officers
or or scientists, then put said mini-nukes on small boats
(or shipping containers) that will detonate as thay approach
a port city like mine.

THAT was my rationale for overthrowing Saddam;
it was purely defensive. I cannot conceive of what our troops
are still doing there. Our mission was ACCOMPLISHED quite a few years ago.

There is not much chance that Saddam or Uday will return to power.
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 08:27 am
Getting back to the book mentioned in H20 Man's initial post, the issue of inaccuracies in school textbooks is something that I take seriously. Why would Schweikart focus on college textbooks? I would be much more concerned about textbooks used in elementary schools and high schools.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 08:54 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
There is not much chance that Saddam or Uday will return to power.


no, it's likely it will be something worse

whatever now passes for the iraqi government will probably not last long if and when the americans leave, bush grins his little grin and claims that democracy will come to iraq, i call bullshit
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 10:09 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
There is not much chance that Saddam or Uday will return to power.


no, it's likely it will be something worse

whatever now passes for the iraqi government will probably not last long
if and when the americans leave, bush grins his little grin and claims
that democracy will come to iraq, i call bullshit

I most sincerely don 't care.
We did not invade to establish democracy.
We went there to overthrow an intolerable threat.
That mission was accomplished YEARS ago.

Enuf is enuf.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 10:19 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
The irrational election of inexperienced Obama made America look dumb to the rest of the world.

Replace Obama with Bush in the sentence and you might have a point.









Hint- The world is not just you and the person you see in the mirror.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 10:35 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

djjd62 wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
There is not much chance that Saddam or Uday will return to power.


no, it's likely it will be something worse

whatever now passes for the iraqi government will probably not last long
if and when the americans leave, bush grins his little grin and claims
that democracy will come to iraq, i call bullshit

I most sincerely don 't care.
We did not invade to establish democracy.
We went there to overthrow an intolerable threat.
That mission was accomplished YEARS ago.

Enuf is enuf.

Agreed. Perhaps the Bush detractors that have tried to twist the Bush Mission Accomplished thing into something should look up the definition of the word, "mission," and also the word, "war." There is a difference, and Bush was exactly right, the "blame America first crowd" is flat wrong, that mission was accomplished, much to the consternation of his opponents. They would rather Bush lose, and America lose. It must be very frustrating to them to see violence in Iraq decline.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 11:34 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

I most sincerely don 't care.
We did not invade to establish democracy.
We went there to overthrow an intolerable threat.
That mission was accomplished YEARS ago.

Enuf is enuf.


did anybody mention that to bush, he seemed pretty interested in bringing democracy to iraq, about two years after the mission was supposedly accomplished, and a year into his second term

he also felt a few extra dead were worth the price

Dateline: June 25, 2005
President Bush today declared democracy in Iraq to be worth "more tough fighting in the weeks and months ahead," in his weekly radio address to the nation. "A democratic Iraq will be a powerful setback to the terrorists who seek to harm our nation," he said. "A democratic Iraq will be a great triumph in the history of liberty. And a democratic Iraq will be a source of peace for our children and grandchildren."
The complete transcript of the address follows:

Bush Declares Iraqi Democracy Worth Fighting For


Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 11:43 am
Bush also said that we are not in the business of establishing regimes. What a liar!
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 01:38 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate, if we had our perfect choices in Iraq, it would not look like it does now. Bush is correct to a point, that we play the cards given us, we are trying to bring Iraq to a democratic solution, but we do not have the final choice as to the politicians that rule there, it is the Iraqis.

By the way, Advocate, did you support Obama? If you did, you are going to be very disappointed with his Israel policies in my opinion. You will be wishing for Bush. You are going to be a very confused and conflicted person by the time another 4 years rolls around.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 01:54 pm
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I most sincerely don 't care.
We did not invade to establish democracy.
We went there to overthrow an intolerable threat.
That mission was accomplished YEARS ago.

Enuf is enuf.


did anybody mention that to bush, he seemed pretty interested in bringing democracy to iraq,
about two years after the mission was supposedly accomplished, and a year into his second term

he also felt a few extra dead were worth the price

Dateline: June 25, 2005
President Bush today declared democracy in Iraq to be worth "more tough fighting in the weeks and months ahead," in his weekly radio address to the nation. "A democratic Iraq will be a powerful setback to the terrorists who seek to harm our nation," he said. "A democratic Iraq will be a great triumph in the history of liberty. And a democratic Iraq will be a source of peace for our children and grandchildren."
The complete transcript of the address follows:

Bush Declares Iraqi Democracy Worth Fighting For

I eagerly supported the invasion.
I DISAVOW and REPUDIATE everything that W has done there
since we ended the threat from Saddam.

W took advantage of the fact
that our troops were ALREADY there
to try to glorify his place in history
by spreading democracy.

That is CHEATING; we did not go there for that.
We went there on a DEFENSIVE mission against Saddam.

BOTH parties in Congress were and are complicit
by perpetuating his waste.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 02:00 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

Bush also said that we are not
in the business of establishing regimes. What a liar!

If he said that, then:
SO STIPULATED.





David
0 Replies
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 04:59 pm
Was Iraq not a threat when it was bankrolled by America?: the government knew it had no WMD it would have to buy them from the CIA like everyone else.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 06:46 pm
@Fountofwisdom,
Fountofwisdom wrote:

Was Iraq not a threat when it was bankrolled by America?:
the government knew it had no WMD it would have to buy them from the CIA like everyone else.

Yes,
Iraq was NOT a threat at that time
because that was BEFORE we went to war against Saddam,
and threw him out of Kuwait, and then like a fool,
Bush allowed Saddam to remain intact in power.


This is all so easy to see
that it shoud be obvious to everyone.





David
Fountofwisdom
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2009 11:52 pm
Iraq was a threat: it invaded Kuwait. America backed Sadam on the grounds he wasn't Iranian or a Communist. When Iran went to the UN with evidence of chemical weapons being used the sanction was again vetoed: by the U.S.
George Bush's first stop on the war against terror was the military junta of Pakistan.
 

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