BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 12:27 pm
@georgeob1,
As usual, Georgeob1 is smirking at the competition between labor union's limited financial ability to fight corporations' vast financial resources and to thwart unions' ability to organize workers through the conservative Republican anti-union dominated National Labor Relations Board since Ronald Reagan became president. Together, they have used their wealth and power to prevent labor organizing elections.

Georgeobi is probably one of the best experts in trying to destroy labor unions from his high-paying position in one of the most anti-union large corporations in the U.S. He's so proud of it that he has boasted about it in other topics. In fact, he sneered and belittled me for my life-long efforts to improve workers lives. He should be ashamed that his efforts have led to the economic damage of the middle class. Barack Obama will change that by reforming the National Labor Relations board to obey the labor fairness laws and hold fair elections and to penalize law-breaking corporations.

Have you no shame, Georgeob1?

BBB
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 12:35 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
BBB, I am none of these things you accuse Georgebob1 of being....yet I agree with him. The time of the unions has come and gone.

I would NEVER stand in the way of a group of workers trying to form a union. But when the company who employs members of that union comes to beg at congress, that same union needs to take a pay cut or lose their jobs.

I made 75k in 2008. These poor blue collar auto workers are making 80k. Now, are you really going to tell me that the government should be taking my taxes, and giving it to people who make more than I do? Isn't this the antithesis of democratic tax policies?
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 01:36 pm
@maporsche,
You apparently don't realize how much you resemble Georgeob1 except that you didn't do the dirty work yourself. But you approve of what the law-breaking union busters did. When you no longer have a middle class that can afford to buy the union-busters products or services, you will have learned the lesson that Henry Ford followed. And he was an anti-semitic, but he understood that he couldn't sell his cars in mass if the middle class didn't earn enough to buy them. The Middle and Poor classes need unions more than ever---if they are able to find jobs.

Think about what you posted. The auto line workers didn't design the bad cars, they didn't make the management decisions, they didn't pay the executives millions of dollars in salaries and bonuses and private jets for stupid decisions. You see yourself as a victim but not the auto workers. Open you eyes!

BBB
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 02:31 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
Well even the real Georgeob1 doesn't at all resemble the false image painted of him by BBB.

The reality, which she refuses to accept, is that in today's economy we must compete with creators, designers, and makers of products and services all over the world. The only way to insulate ourselves from such competition is through tariff barriers to foreign goods and services that have repeatedly proven themselves to suppress all economic activity, impoverishing both those behind and those outside the tariff walls.

It is very difficult to run a successful enterprise of any kind. Doing so requires, among other things the cooperative motivation and engagement of all employees, at all levels. Some enterprises do this well and some don't. Those that do tend to thrive: those that don't fail. The basic self interest of Union managers is contrary to the best interests of the enterprise (and everyone employed by it) because of the combative relationships they foster in their efforts to convince their dues-paying members that they are earning their keep. BBB herself illustrates these irresponsible, combatative and destructive attitudes in her deceptive claims that Union members didn't design poor quality cars. The truth is the quality programs that Japanese manufacturers innovated (with the guidance of Deming and others) involved the responsible engagement and participation of all workers at all levels - things the UAW resisted for years.

I have experienced the destructive forces exerted by labor unions as they reflexively foster confrontational relations with management; cling to outmoded and no longer relevant work rules that sorely limit productivity; all while accepting no responsibility whatever for the consequences on the economic health of the enterprise that sustains them all. They often do some good; but almost all of it would be readily accomplished without them at all. In the main they are a destructive force, and the fate of our unionized industries amply demonstrates this fact.

Now they want the public to pay for their sustained mischief and to modify the law to enable them to use hired goons and ballot box stuffers to enable them to forcibly organize workers who, with a secret ballot have repeatedly rejected them.

P.S. I am unashamed.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 03:29 pm
when i look at the destruction a few hundred managers in the financial industry have caused not only to the american economy but probably to the economy of the world , all else pales in comparison .

but to get back to the unions and the auto industry ...

bbb wrote :

Quote:
The auto line workers didn't design the bad cars, they didn't make the management decisions, they didn't pay the executives millions of dollars in salaries and bonuses and private jets for stupid decisions.


if anyone can show that the (unionized) auto workers are to be blamed for the monstrous cars that were designed and built by the small 3 , i would really like to hear about it .

and as i stated elsewhere , if OPEL , the german GM subsidiary can build cars that make a profit (and sent money back home to the mother) , why has the U.S. managemant team done such a miserable job ?
as i also stated , the german factories are highly unionized and work under a co-management system where company and union managemant have to make decision together .
do american businesses fear sharing decision-making with their workers ?

(the management/union "co-management" was fostered by the allied - american - military government after WW II .
it was not a homegrown , german development , but introduced by the allied military government to encourage "social harmony" in the new germany .
it seems as if U.S. corporations often prefer confrontation over co-operation . )
hbg



0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 05:28 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
These poor blue collar auto workers are making 80k. Now, are you really going to tell me that the government should be taking my taxes, and giving it to people who make more than I do? Isn't this the antithesis of democratic tax policies?


if your best defense is to make up ****, you ought to stick to waxing your car.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/12/uaws_superhigh_pay_a_myth.html

http://www.uaw.org/auto/11_25_08auto2.cfm

the top regular, average pay for a senior UAW worker is $28.00 X 2080 hours/year =$ 58,240. that is for an experienced work who was employed before the 2007 UAW contract.

the top regular pay for a new UAW worker is $15.00 X 2080 hours/year =$ 31,200.

by 2011, one third of UAW auto workers will have been hired after 2007 and make $15.00/hour. that is an income of $20,000 /year below the american mean income.

so these are hardly the lucky duckies you presume them to be.

since you have just shown animosity towards those with higher income you would likely be accused of "Class Warfare." unfortunately, you are exhibiting jealously towards a person who would be making $5,000/year more, or a quarter of a dollar more than you per hour.

so i don't believe for a second that your opinion is based upon objective reality and instead arises from a viseral repulsion to blue collar people.
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 05:40 pm
@kuvasz,
(for kuvasz :
don't you realize that it is considered o.k. to give "taxpayer" money to the crumbling financial institutions but not to autoworkers ?
let them eat cake ! )
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 05:46 pm
@hamburger,
Quote:
don't you realize that it is considered o.k. to give "taxpayer" money to the crumbling financial institutions but not to autoworkers ?
let them eat cake !


the problem is bigger than that.....for a long time in America the working stiffs have gotten no respect, and since most are too proud to complain and our political leaders have not done their jobs the stiffs have gotten the shaft. It is time for a little revolution I'd say.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 05:56 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

Barack Obama will change that by reforming the National Labor Relations board to obey the labor fairness laws and hold fair elections and to penalize law-breaking corporations.
BBB


In this context, of course, "fair elections" means doing away with a secret ballot.
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 06:01 pm
@roger,
roger wrote :

Quote:
In this context, of course, "fair elections" means doing away with a secret ballot.


it'll be just like the annual meeting of a corporation or parliament :

"the AYES have it ! " .
0 Replies
 
 

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