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Obama/Biden Tax Plan - Can you say SOCIALISM??

 
 
Woiyo9
 
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 07:23 am
Biden: Paying higher taxes patriotic for wealthy

By DOUGLASS K. DANIEL, Associated Press Writer 3 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden said Thursday that paying more in taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans. In a new TV ad that repeats widely debunked claims about the Democratic tax plan, the Republican campaign calls Obama's tax increases "painful."
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Under the economic plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less " the vast majority of American taxpayers " would receive a tax cut.

Although Republican John McCain claims that Obama would raise taxes, the independent Tax Policy Center and other groups conclude that four out of five U.S. households would receive tax cuts under Obama's proposals.

"We want to take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people," Biden said in an interview on ABC's "Good Morning America."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_el_pr/biden_taxes

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Type: Discussion • Score: 15 • Views: 4,360 • Replies: 61

 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 07:35 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:

Quote:
Under the economic plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less " the vast majority of American taxpayers " would receive a tax cut.

Although Republican John McCain claims that Obama would raise taxes, the independent Tax Policy Center and other groups conclude that four out of five U.S. households would receive tax cuts under Obama's proposals.

Sounds good to me!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 07:37 am
In the polls etc thread, Engineer posted this great graphical representation of the effect that McCain's and Obama's tax plans will have on people in different income groups:


http://chartjunk.karmanaut.com/wp-content/images/taxplans.gif


The wealthier you are, the bigger a cut McCain will give you; if you have a low income, McCain isnt going to do zilch for you. If you have an average income, he'll still give you much less than Obama.

Will the real tax cutter please stand up?
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 07:40 am
@Woiyo9,
Quote:

WASHINGTON - Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden said Thursday that paying more in taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans.


You have to read that the right way... By "wealthier Americans" he/they mean anybody making much more than about $50,000/year.
nimh
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 07:41 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
You have to read that the right way... By "wealthier Americans" he/they mean anybody making much more than about $50,000/year.

Nope - as the graph shows, they mean anybody making more than $600,000 a/year.
Woiyo9
 
  3  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 07:44 am
@nimh,
How do you cut taxes by 5.5% on people who do NOT PAY TAXES???

Where in the Obama plan are the corresponding spending cuts???

McCains Plan is comprehensive and realistic...

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/0b8e4db8-5b0c-459f-97ea-d7b542a78235.htm

Pro-Growth Tax Agenda
John McCain believes taxes should be low, simple, and fair and has a track record of commitment to these principles.

Cut Taxes On The Middle Class

* Cut Taxes For Middle Class Families: Hard-working American families need lower taxes. John McCain will permanently repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) -- a tax that will be paid nearly exclusively by 25 million middle class families. John McCain will repeal this onerous tax, saving middle class families nearly $60 billion in a single year. Under McCain's plan, a middle class family with children set to pay the AMT will save an average of over $2,700 -- a real tax cut for working families.

Pro-Growth Tax Policy

* Keep Tax Rates Low: Entrepreneurs are at the heart of American innovation, growth and prosperity. Entrepreneurs create the ultimate job security -- a new, better opportunity if your current job goes away. Entrepreneurs should not be taxed into submission. John McCain will fight the Democrats' crippling plans for a tax increase in 2011. Left to their devices, Democrats will impose a massive $100 billion tax hike, almost $700 per taxpayer every year.

* Make It Harder To Raise Taxes: John McCain believes it should require a 3/5 majority vote in Congress to raise taxes.

* Cut The Corporate Tax Rate From 35 To 25 Percent. A lower corporate tax rate is essential to U.S. competitiveness. America was once a low-tax business environment, but as our trade partners lowered their rates, America failed to keep pace, leaving us with the second-highest rate among the world’s advanced economies.

* Reward Saving, Investment and Risk-Taking: Low taxes on dividends and capital gains promote saving, channel investment dollars to innovative, high-value uses and not wasteful financial planning. John McCain will keep the current rates on dividends and capital gains and fight anti-growth efforts by Democrats.

* Allow First-Year Deduction, Or “Expensing”, Of Equipment And Technology Investments. Expensing of equipment and technology will provide an immediate boost to capital expenditures and reward investments in cutting-edge technologies.

Pro-Innovation Tax Cuts

* Ban Internet Taxes: John McCain believes we must make a farsighted, robust, and fervent commitment to innovation and new technologies to sustain our global competitiveness, meet our national security challenges, achieve less costly and more effective health care, reduce dangerous dependence on foreign sources of oil, and raise the quality of education in the United States. John McCain has been a leader in keeping the Internet free of taxes. As President, he will seek a permanent ban on taxes that threaten this engine of economic growth and prosperity.

* Ban New Cell Phone Taxes: John McCain understands that the same people that would tax e-mail will tax every text message -- and even 911 calls. John McCain will prohibit new cellular telephone taxes.

* Establish Permanent Tax Credit Equal To 10 Percent Of Wages Spent On R&D. This reform will simplify the tax code, reward activity in the United States, and make us more competitive with other countries. A permanent credit will provide an incentive to innovate and remove uncertainty. At a time when our companies need to be more competitive, we need to provide a permanent incentive to innovate, and remove the uncertainty now hanging over businesses as they make R&D investment decisions.

Retirement Tax Cut

* Lower Medicare Premiums: Seniors face a growing threat from higher Medicare premiums that tax away their Social Security and retirement savings. John McCain has proposed comprehensive, pro-market health care and Medicare reforms to reduce health care costs and control increases in premiums -- while delivering high-quality health care.

REFORMING WASHINGTON TO REGAIN THE TRUST OF TAXPAYERS
Wasteful spending in Washington has gone from irresponsible to indefensible. Right now, even the government reports that one-fifth of programs are receiving failing marks. John McCain will restore the trust that Americans have lost in their government spending their hard earned money wisely. (John McCain's detailed government reform plan may be found here.)

Eliminating Wasteful Spending

* Stop Earmarks, Pork-Barrel Spending, And Waste: John McCain will veto every pork-laden spending bill and make their authors famous. As President, he will seek the line-item veto to reduce waste and eliminate earmarks that have led to corruption. Earmarks restrict America's ability to address genuine national priorities and interfere with fair, competitive markets.

* Leadership, Courage And Choices: Reduced spending means making choices. John McCain will provide the courageous leadership necessary to control spending, including:
o Eliminate broken government programs. The federal government itself admits that 1 in 5 programs do not perform.
o Reform our civil service system to promote accountability and good performance in our federal workforce.
o Eliminate earmarks, wasteful subsidies, and pork-barrel spending.
o Reform procurement programs and cut wasteful spending in defense and non-defense programs.

Budgetary Reform To Give Tax Cuts A Fair Chance

* Congress Has Unfairly Stacked The Deck To Spend More And Raise Taxes.
o If a spending program is on the books, budgets assume that it is on the books forever -- and continues to grow -- even if the law says it expires.
o If low taxes are on the books, budgets don't assume that they last forever. When they expire, those taxes are automatically raised.
o John McCain will reform budgeting to treat equally spending and taxes and to stop damaging tax hikes.

Reforming Entitlement Programs For The 21st Century

* Reform Social Security: John McCain will fight to save the future of Social Security and believes that we may meet our obligations to the retirees of today and the future without raising taxes. John McCain supports supplementing the current Social Security system with personal accounts -- but not as a substitute for addressing benefit promises that cannot be kept. John McCain will reach across the aisle, but if the Democrats do not act, he will. No problem is in more need of honesty than the looming financial challenges of entitlement programs. Americans have the right to know the truth and John McCain will not leave office without fixing the problems that threatens our future prosperity and power.

* Control Medicare Growth: The growth of spending on Medicare threatens our fiscal future. John McCain has proposed comprehensive health care reforms that will reduce the growth in Medicare spending, protect seniors against rising Medicare premium payments, and preserve the advancements in medical science central to providing quality care.

Trade and Displaced Workers

* Lower Barriers to Trade: John McCain believes that globalization is an opportunity for American workers today and in the future. Ninety-five percent of the world's customers lie outside our borders and we need to be at the table when the rules for access to those markets are written. To do so, the U.S. should engage in multilateral, regional and bilateral efforts to reduce barriers to trade, level the global playing field and build effective enforcement of global trading rules.

* Competitive American Workers: John McCain understands that globalization will not automatically benefit every American. We must prepare the next generation of workers by making American education worthy of the promise we make to our children and ourselves. We must be a nation committed to competitiveness and opportunity. We must fight for the ability of all students to have access to any school of demonstrated excellence. We must place parents and children at the center of the education process, empowering parents by greatly expanding the ability of parents to choose among schools for their children.

John McCain will overhaul unemployment insurance and make it a program for retraining, relocating and assisting workers who have lost a job. The unemployment insurance system needs to be modernized to meet the goals of helping displaced workers make ends meet between jobs and moving people quickly on to the next opportunity. John McCain will reform the half-dozen training programs to approaches that can be used to meet the bills, pay for training, and get back to work. John McCain believes that we can strengthen community colleges and technical training, and give displaced workers more choices to find their way back to productive and prosperous lives.

Health Care Reform

* Comprehensive Health Care Reform: John McCain believes health care reform should address the rising costs that threaten families' budgets, business competitiveness, and government programs by making the entire system responsive to the

Woiyo9
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 07:45 am
@nimh,
What happened to 250K/yr?
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 07:50 am
@Woiyo9,
Cheif Woiyo said...

"How do you cut taxes by 5.5% on people who do NOT PAY TAXES???"


How the hell do you figure these people aren't paying taxes?

You defy logic and common sense...
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 08:12 am
@Woiyo9,
Where and how do you see McCain paying for the $5000 per family tax credit for health insurance he proposes?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 08:18 am
@Woiyo9,
Some form of wealth redistribution is necessary, unless you plan to live in a world of feudal lords.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 08:18 am
Quote:

* Ban New Cell Phone Taxes: John McCain understands that the same people that would tax e-mail will tax every text message -- and even 911 calls. John McCain will prohibit new cellular telephone taxes.


I love this one. McCain is going to protect us from the same people that brought us email taxes.

email tax hoax

I can say "socialism" but I can also say "out of touch with reality."
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 08:59 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:

How do you cut taxes by 5.5% on people who do NOT PAY TAXES???

The tax cut is for the entire group of people, most of whom do pay taxes.
Woiyo9 wrote:

Where in the Obama plan are the corresponding spending cuts???

Obama's plan raises revenue. McCain's plan cuts revenue. Where are the real spending cuts he proposes? Seems like platitudes about "wasteful spending" that end up being things like veterans' benefits.
Woiyo9 wrote:

McCains Plan is comprehensive and realistic...

Alan Greenspan does seem to think so.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 09:06 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:

Biden: Paying higher taxes patriotic for wealthy

Sorry, missed this one. Paying higher taxes to support our troops in time of war is absolutely patriotic. What do you think "support our troops" means? Parades? How about increased spending on VA benefits, more money for body armor, better GI benefits for returning soldiers? Paying higher taxes in war-time to fund the war and ensuring that war is necessary are about the only truly patriotic things the average citizen can do in war.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 09:09 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

Woiyo9 wrote:

McCains Plan is comprehensive and realistic...

Alan Greenspan does seem to think so.

Sorry, make that doesn't seem to think so.
Alan Greenspan wrote:
Greenspan, a long-time friend of McCain and a Republican, said about the Arizona senator's plans to extend massive tax cuts imposed by President George W. Bush: "I'm not in favor of financing tax cuts with borrowed money."
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 09:12 am
@engineer,
Absolutely. What's more patriotic: supporting your country to the best of your ability, or supporting your country only as much as it can force you to do so?

Patriotism means hating those unlike you and getting together with the other wealthy folks to discuss how much better you are then other countries, to Republicans.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  3  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 09:18 am
I can't ******* believe that you could be so stupid as to post an attack on obama's tax plan being socialist when the same day a branch of the federal government's executive branch, run by republicans takes over a private company and is spending $85,000,000,000 of american tax payer money to do it.

let's just say that you have no clue about what socialism means.
Woiyo9
 
  3  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 10:42 am
@kuvasz,
The Feds had no choice and any responsible thinker would know that. Yet, that is not the issue.

But since you bring it up, who signed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 10:46 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:

The Feds had no choice and any responsible thinker would know that. Yet, that is not the issue.

But since you bring it up, who signed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999?


Clinton signed it. Who championed it? Phil Gramm.

The Feds DID have a choice. They didn't have to bail AIG out. They could have let the chips fall where they may, and in an ACTUAL free market, that is what would have happened.

It was a purely socialistic move by the FED, and nothing else. They did have a choice; unless, you are willing to admit, that when the **** hits the fan, socialism is the only choice? Smile

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 11:04 am
@Rockhead,
Quote:
["How do you cut taxes by 5.5% on people who do NOT PAY TAXES???"

Please support this wildass stupid statement, Chief.





I'd really like an answer...
Woiyo9
 
  6  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 11:31 am
@Rockhead,
Although Obama is offering a new series of tax breaks, they undermine rather than improve economic incentives. First, whether or not you get those breaks will depend on your income. In Washington, taking away tax breaks as families work harder to make more money is called a “phase-out.” Economists have a different name for it"we call it a tax. Reducing a person’s tax credit as his income goes up also reduces his incentive to earn more income.

Second, Obama would make some credits refundable for families with credits bigger than their tax liability, which would also have the nefarious effect of raising marginal tax rates. For example, consider a worker in the 10 percent bracket with $1,000 of tax liability before credits who claims $1,200 in credits. The tax impact of earning an extra $100 depends on whether the credit is refundable. If it’s not refundable, there’s no tax penalty on earning the extra $100 because the worker’s tax liability stays at zero. But if the credit is refundable, earning the extra money pushes the tax up from negative $200 to negative $190"that’s a 10 percent penalty on earning income.

http://www.american.com/archive/2008/august-08-08/the-folly-of-obama2019s-tax-plan

Despite the charges of critics that the tax cuts enacted in 2001, 2003 and 2004 favored the “rich,” these cuts actually reduced the tax burden of low- and middle-income taxpayers and shifted the tax burden onto wealthier taxpayers. Tax Foundation economists estimate that for tax year 2004, a record 42.5 million Americans who filed a tax return (one-third of the 131 million returns filed last year) had no tax liability after they took advantage of their credits and deductions. Millions more paid next to nothing.

Individuals and families who will earn enough to file a tax return can eliminate their tax liability by taking advantage of credits and deductions in the tax code. Many of these are familiar to all tax filers: the personal exemption is worth $3,100 in 2004, and the standard deduction is worth $4,850 for singles and $9,700 for married couples. For tax filers who have itemized deductions that exceed the standard deduction, there are the amounts paid for mortgage interest or given to charity as well as various education-related deductions. Business owners can take advantage of an even wider array of credits and deductions to reduce their tax liability.

In 1997, Congress enacted a new $500 per-child tax credit and expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) for low-income workers. The 2003 tax cuts increased the value of the child credit to $1,000. These two tax credits " especially the child credit " have had a powerful effect on reducing, and many cases eliminating, the income tax liability for millions of Americans.

These two credits are unique in that a taxpayer can receive the full value of the credit even if they have no tax liability. To see how this works, consider, for example, a family that has three children (and thus should receive $3,000 in tax credits), but only has a tax liability of $1,505. Under the rules of most tax credits, this family would only be allowed $1,505 in tax relief " an amount equal to their tax liability. But a “refundable” tax credit gives this family the full amount they are eligible for -- $1,505 toward their tax liability, and the remaining $1,495 in the form of a refund check. (See Table 2.)

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/542.html

Apparently, Rockhead, you may owe me an apology for you "wildass stupid" and racist remark. I do not expect one so feel free to drop whatever colorful statements you feel necessary.

 

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