19
   

Tags vs. Forums -- The Showdown

 
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2008 07:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
DING...

It IS the audience thing.

Might wanna mainstream your thoughts, or rally your troops at a flag, Hawk...
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2008 07:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

if you don't log in every day but do last post when you do you will have many pages of threads that have been active since your last time around., However, the less active ones will tend to be towards the end of the list.


That also describes the last software. Log in and the top of the list is what everyone's talking about. The end of the list is the stuff they aren't.
Quote:

They are buried, and few will regularly take the time to sift through all the threads that have been active in the hopes of finding something good in the threads that everyone else has passed by with out stopping.


So? How is that different from the way it was?

Quote:
These same threads that lack popularity also will not be tagged , thus will not be found in that way. They also will have low popularity numbers.


Nonsense. The old buried threads are coming back in droves from being tagged.

Quote:
In many different ways a2k gives the message "this thread is not worth your time", even if we try not to listen because we know that the a2k valuation will not always be our individual valuation, we will be influenced.


They surely you can come up with one real example. But you can't.

Quote:

Even soviets who knew that their government spoke propaganda were influenced by it, had a difficult time figuring out what the truth was, as we as humans do act according to group think even when we don't want to, even when we try not to be.


In your last post you were struggling to manage in your diminished experience, and I asked for a concrete example. Put up.

What you are claiming is simply not true. Old threads are popping up in droves and new subjects are gaining footholds while they had no place previously.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2008 07:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
You flatter yourself. I am not calling you anything so noble. Use this definition:

Merriam-Webster wrote:
3: victim; especially : a great or constant sufferer <a martyr to asthma all his life " A. J. Cronin>


You are playing the role of forum martyr and complaining of the great evil of the "regime". I don't think you are sacrificing a thing, and certainly not being selfless. On the contrary, you are trying to make your unpopularity a political matter and acting like a big whiny victim.

So give us the examples of how the software is making you such a martyr (victim, not sacrifice mind you).
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2008 07:34 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

It is true and that is how I have my preferences set. But they can fairly quickly become buried deep into several pages, and if I can't call them up with logical tags, it is a real pain to go hunting for those I didn't post in or tag when I first saw them. And usually I don't.



Fox, I think this will work itself out, re finding your tags.

I haven't used my tags to follow stuff since I'm ploddingly tagging all my threads (up to 251 on my way to 499). I have a motive, in that some of my interests aren't of main interest to the existing a2k but may be to the wide world of design/landuse/engineering/architecture, bla bla bla. I figure that audience will grow.

I'm crazy about the tagging, in that a thread on such and such can also tweak those interested in so and so, and think that this difficult start will be come the mode of the internet. But, day to day now, I'm only looking at New Posts.
With site growth, I expect the my tags thing to work for me.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2008 08:19 pm
@CalamityJane,
cj wrote :

Quote:
Well, I started out with tagging and it just became a nuisance to constantly
tag new threads and I resorted to the default feature "all topics, all time",
and I also use "my posts" - that's it.

So having used tags for 2 weeks, I prefer the old sub-categories to tagging!



that's how this old dog feels too .
it seems to me that the old system was more "orderly" .
when i started on a2k , i was able to get the hang of it fairly quickly because there was this "overview/index" aka FORUMS !
since i made a mistake and had to re-register on the NEW a2k , i saw what would confront - or rather NOT confront - a newbie . there is pretty well a clean slate . i'm not saying that tagging might not have any advantages - i just haven't found any ... yet .
i guess i looked upon the old a2k as a kind of encyclopedia , whereas the new a2k is more "free-form" - probably more for the MODERN POET who likes free-style poems ?
hbg
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  4  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:00 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
... But since I thought you asked. . . . Smile


Actually, I didn't, but that's okay. Apparently a lot of folks believed I was eliciting opinions.

But anyway -- forums meander and change all the time. And, surprise, surprise, tagging can actually accommodate that. Not to sound even more like I've drunken Kool-Aid but when topics were rigidly categorized before, they stayed that way. Now, they don't have to. If this topic turned into a discussion of how to grow tulips, I wouldn't be surprised if people tagged it as tulip or gardening or the like.

There's considerably more freedom with tagging, once you get the hang of it.

As for (and I'm not picking on you, Foxy) the idea that the look and feel are counterintuitive, I think a lot of that comes from having been on the old A2K for so long. This is actually not the only place with tagging, and tagging is not new by any means. Here's a site where tags are king: http://www.music-map.com/ They use a "tag cloud" concept, where one rock band leads to another and another and another. This is because a lot of music is not readily categorized in just one place.

Just like lots of other subjects in life.
Green Witch
 
  4  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:23 am
My two cents is the same as C. Jane and Hamburger. I know this is a birth process, so I'm trying to be patient, but I mostly feel like I'm walking around a strange city running into people I already know.

I have a hard time seeing what is new and an impossible time finding anything older, unless it was a thread I actually made a post on. Maybe it's because I have the curiosity and attention span of a five year old, but I have no interest in tagging (sorry) and I found the previous format more user friendly.
DrewDad
 
  4  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 08:56 am
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:
I have a hard time seeing what is new

C'mon. Finding new stuff is easy as pie.

New posts? Able2know->All Time->New Posts->Go

New threads? Able2know->Day->Any sort you want->Go


Green Witch wrote:
and an impossible time finding anything older

Older stuff can be more difficult, but no more difficult than the old site.

Politics?

Click Politics tag->All Time->New Posts and you've got the same Politics view you had at the old site.
Foxfyre
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 09:23 am
@DrewDad,
I can set my preferences as you describe, click on politics and subtitles within politics and cannot find my own threads there--threads I have tagged politics or those subtitles--much less many other threads started by others I am looking forward. The selection appears to be limited pretty much to posts made in the last few days, and does not allow you to go to those that went inactive for a few days but which are appropriate for current events in that topic. It doesn't help others find stuff that only appears in "my tags" or "my posts".

I know I keep beating this drum and I will accept if there is no cure for my irritations re this, but I am hoping there will be a remedy eventually developed for it to help us folks who aren't particularly good at searching and doing the techie stuff.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 09:33 am
@Foxfyre,
I don't see that behavior.

Can you give me an example of exactly what you're clicking?

I go to Politics->All Time->New Posts and see 295 pages of threads.



At one point Craven/Robert admitted that there was a bug. Tagging a thread and then immediately searching that tag would result in no topics displayed. I don't know if the bug has be resolved, but I have not seen it in a while.
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 11:11 am
@Green Witch,
Quote:
I mostly feel like I'm walking around a strange city running into people I already know.




you lucky so-and-so , i seem to bump into plenty of people that i wouldn't want to meet on the street .
i guess i may have to use the ignore feature - but have resisted so far .
hbg
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 11:14 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

I don't see that behavior.

Can you give me an example of exactly what you're clicking?

I go to Politics->All Time->New Posts and see 295 pages of threads.



At one point Craven/Robert admitted that there was a bug. Tagging a thread and then immediately searching that tag would result in no topics displayed. I don't know if the bug has be resolved, but I have not seen it in a while.


Later if I have time I'll try to figure out some way to illustrate, but gotta take care of other business now. I did describe the problems I'm having in prior posts on this thread, however.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 11:18 am
@jespah,
jespah wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
... But since I thought you asked. . . . Smile


Actually, I didn't, but that's okay. Apparently a lot of folks believed I was eliciting opinions.

But anyway -- forums meander and change all the time. And, surprise, surprise, tagging can actually accommodate that. Not to sound even more like I've drunken Kool-Aid but when topics were rigidly categorized before, they stayed that way. Now, they don't have to. If this topic turned into a discussion of how to grow tulips, I wouldn't be surprised if people tagged it as tulip or gardening or the like.

There's considerably more freedom with tagging, once you get the hang of it.

As for (and I'm not picking on you, Foxy) the idea that the look and feel are counterintuitive, I think a lot of that comes from having been on the old A2K for so long. This is actually not the only place with tagging, and tagging is not new by any means. Here's a site where tags are king: http://www.music-map.com/ They use a "tag cloud" concept, where one rock band leads to another and another and another. This is because a lot of music is not readily categorized in just one place.

Just like lots of other subjects in life.


I can appreciate what you're saying and I fully acknowledge that I am probably in a small minority here. And I am a conservative you know - (grin) - so I support majority rule in things that are based on preferences and do not involve unalienable rights. I absolutely have no unalienable right to have things the way I want to have them here.

My only point in voicing my observations/gripes/concerns etc. at all is in the hope that maybe the best of both worlds could be possible. If not, I'll cope.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 11:22 am
@DrewDad,
They don't all seem to pop up. I can specifically go into a forum like "Relationships" and see a new post that does not appear on the All Time-New Posts. Maybe it's just me.

Hamburger - Ignore is divine. More so with threads than individual posts. I sometimes have to hit the view button to see an individual post to know what is going on, but it is an excellent feature to avoid threads that are designed to bait me into wasting my time.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 01:29 pm
@Green Witch,
Maybe a silly question, but are you hitting "refresh" on both pages, or are you just using your "back" button to get to All Time - New Posts?

After you go "back" you need to hit "refresh."
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 01:36 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

I can set my preferences as you describe, click on politics and subtitles within politics and cannot find my own threads there--threads I have tagged politics or those subtitles--much less many other threads started by others I am looking forward. ....


Your own topics can be found by going to "My Topics" (top of the page). Or, go here: http://able2know.org/user/foxfyre/topics/

Substitute another user's name for yours in that link and you'll find their topics, e. g. http://able2know.org/user/DrewDad/topics/

That might be an easier way of finding things.

Also, one issue with Politics is that it's large and probably has the most topics with one specific tag. Hence what you're looking for might be on succeeding pages.

To find topics you've tagged, go here: http://able2know.org/user/Foxfyre/tags/ or just click "My Tags". Substitute another user's name for yours in that link and you'll find their tags, e. g. http://able2know.org/user/Occom_Bill/tags/ Note that for Bill, since he's got a space in his username, you need to put in an underscore between the two words.

Also, here's a link to anything you have tagged as Politics: http://able2know.org/user/foxfyre/tags/politics/ Again, substitute different tag names and/or usernames and you'll find different stuff, e. g. http://able2know.org/user/kickycan/tags/sports/

That might also be a way to find stuff. Yet another way is with the search up top, which is based on Google so it's done the same way as a Google search. The difference is that it only searches within www.able2know.org but otherwise you can use the same logic like putting double quotes around phrases you're searching for, etc.

I think one thing that's happening is there's a LOT of new stuff and so things might be missed, and then changes are made and it's tough to think, okay, that was the way it was done yesterday but now today .... "My Tags" and "My Topics", though -- I believe both of them have been there all along since the launch.

In any event, a lot of changes means it can be tougher to get used to things but since not everything can be changed at once (small group of developers who do not have 100% of their time devoted here), there are opportunities to get used to things, and then you may find easier ways to do stuff or at least means of asking for improvements. Nick and Craven are rather flexible and I agree with you on the idea of it not being all or nothing. Still, there's just so much they can do, plus they have to do a cost-benefit analysis, not only in terms of actual dollar costs but also in terms of performance and their own time they can spend developing, etc. Some changes will come quickly, others will await time, money, skill or something else, while others won't come until much later, if at all (and in the meantime, different solutions may be devised). And so it goes with development.
Foxfyre
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 01:45 pm
@jespah,
Going to my topics or my tags is no problem Jespah. Finding stuff that isn't in my tags or my posts or my topics is the problem. It didn't used to be as much of a problem for me. I could at least remember what forum something interesting was in and go back and look for it a day or two later. I can't do that any more and if I can't remember the member initating the thread and can't come up with a logical keyword that hits it, I can't find it again. And that is frustrating.

That's all I'm saying.

And when I am on the home page and click on Trivia and games and see one thread there, that one thread being one I've never even looked in much less participated in, what is up with that?

I'm honestly not upset and I'm dealing with it. But if others are having the same problems I am, at least putting it out there might help in devising a fix if a fix is even desirable or warranted.
jespah
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 02:06 pm
@Foxfyre,
I understand. I'm trying to duplicate your experience. In Trivia and Word Games (that's the name of the tag), there are 49 pages of results when you do a tag search. So how are you only getting one topic when you click on the tag? Are you perhaps clicking on a tag just called "trivia"?
Foxfyre
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 02:11 pm
@jespah,
Okay when I log onto the home page, I have my preference set for All topics. Sort by new posts.

When I click on trivia and word games at the left of the screen (my left when facing the screen) I see this.

colossus cryptic 117
Question by gwen39 on 08/28/08 2:17 AM Replies: 1 Views: 12
Last Post by Dutchy on 08/28/08 5:37 AM

That's it. Of all the trivia and word games I know there are, I see only this one. I don't see the "Three Word Story" that I actually post in occasionally or any of the other probably hundreds of other trivia and word games that I know there are.

I know I have my elections thread tagged elections. I click on politics and then on elections on the home page though, and it isn't there.

I have my preferences set on no minimum too.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 02:30 pm
@Foxfyre,
Stay tuned, I'm going to look. My a2k new posts as well as some other pages have opened v e r y slowly for the last couple of days, and have opened - sometimes - at the bottom of the page (what?) to a kind of blank whiteness. I did mention this in bugs, before the announcement to go to Help. In my case, I'm very much not sure it's not my single computer and its memory issues.
 

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