OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 12:27 pm
the mid east to anatolia isnt very far
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 12:27 pm
why did i say anatolia, umm anyways, the upper middle east...
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 12:29 pm
OGIONIK wrote:
why did i say anatolia, umm anyways, the upper middle east...


You are clueless as to what is going on in the world.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 12:31 pm
Green Witch wrote:
OGIONIK wrote:
why did i say anatolia, umm anyways, the upper middle east...


You are clueless as to what is going on in the world.


among other things.



Certainly appears to be a bad situation.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 12:34 pm
old europe wrote:
Lash wrote:
I've read some of the reports. The guesstimates on loss of life are harrowing. Saakashvili almost seems smug. My default position is always with the underdog... reading more to make sure...


Did you see the Saakashvili interview on CNN? Such a weird setting, with the flag of the European Union in the background...

http://i34.tinypic.com/30th3ih.jpg

No. I read his comments after the violence started. He said something that sounded like he had a rather smug smile in his voice...something about how it was a brilliant idea for Russia to attack when all the world leaders were on holiday... Made me think he was being sarcastic or something--like HE was the brilliant one...and HE had orchestrated the incursion...but was turning it on Putie.

PS--- Shocked on the flag!!
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 12:49 pm
Lash wrote:
No. I read his comments after the violence started. He said something that sounded like he had a rather smug smile in his voice...something about how it was a brilliant idea for Russia to attack when all the world leaders were on holiday... Made me think he was being sarcastic or something--like HE was the brilliant one...and HE had orchestrated the incursion...but was turning it on Putie.


The way it seems is that Georgia sent the military to gain control over Tskhinvali - which is in the very south of South Ossetia. South Ossetia is part of Georgia, but has been fighting for independence. Russia has supported the separatists - certainly motivated by Georgia's orientation towards the West, its move towards membership in NATO and maybe even the European Union.

Russia has a "peacekeeping force" in South Ossetia. It has practically been giving away Russian passports to Ossetians, with a minimum of bureaucracy. As a consequence, about 90% of South Ossetians are now "Russian citizens".

Therefore, Russia is arguing that it is only protecting its citizens (while attacking Georgian military and civilians in Georgia), while Georgia is saying that it was only moving troops within its own country (while possibly violating a peace agreement concerning an autonomous region).


Depending on your point of view, both the South Ossetians and the Georgians could therefore claim "underdog status".

Sucks.


Lash wrote:
PS--- Shocked on the flag!!


No kidding. My first reaction was, "dude, that's quite a bit presumptuous..."
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 12:57 pm
Re: underdog status...absolutely. I'll have to read more and keep up closely. I'm not sure I have a dog in this one. I wonder about the authenticity of South Ossetian desires to be Russian.... ah well.
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 12:58 pm
yeah im so clueless, someone wants mor eland. GG
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 02:00 pm
old europe wrote:
The way it seems is that Georgia sent the military to gain control over Tskhinvali


Yep. I was listening to the BBC all last night (night meaning eastern daylight time in the US) -- Georgian troops had Tskhinvali surrounded and were pummeling it all night long.


Georgia may not be NATO, but the US has extensively modernized and trained their forces. I'm not sure the Russian troops are going to have an easy time defending the South Ossetians. If I had to guess, I'd guess the Georgian military is going to win unless they make a serious blunder.

Then again, such blunders do happen in wars.....
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 02:17 pm
oralloy wrote:
Georgia may not be NATO, but the US has extensively modernized and trained their forces. I'm not sure the Russian troops are going to have an easy time defending the South Ossetians. If I had to guess, I'd guess the Georgian military is going to win unless they make a serious blunder.

Then again, such blunders do happen in wars.....


Georgia's army numbers around 18,000 soldiers, 79 tanks, 7 combat aircrafts, 3 armed helos, 7 helicopters ...

---------

Again, it's all about (natural) gas, oil, pipelines ...
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 02:52 pm
I don't want to die in Georgia, oh no.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2008 04:05 pm
I'm not surprised at all to see the E.U. flag in that picture. The Georgians would be nuts not to attempt to spin this as an attack on the stability of Europe.

I think it is obvious that the pipeline from Azerbiajan is the target. Azerbaijan is believed to have the third largest reserves of "light, sweet crude" in the world, after Saudi Arabia and Iraq.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2008 01:09 am
To his left is as you pointed out the EU flag and to the right is either the flag of England (not GB) or the flag of London. The third one also looks like something from GB.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2008 01:33 am
In my opinion, those are the flags of Georgia and the Georgian president.

At least, those look like it.

Source
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2008 01:55 am
You are right - looking closer I noticed there must be four crosses as in the Georgian flag. One can see parts of them.
So what is the EU flag doing in Georgia?
0 Replies
 
Paaskynen
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2008 04:15 am
IMHO this affair is a clear as day. The Russian nationalists were never happy about the secession of Georgia from the Russian Federation after the Soviet Union fell apart and Georgia has been making overtures to the West ever since to find support against their big bad neighbour (and it has received such help) and the underlying interest in this all is the same as what led the US into Iraq and what has motivated the re-activation of the US Fourth Fleet: control over energy resources. Russia wishes to keep Europe dependent on Russian oil and gas and therefore control of the Georgian pipeline is important. The Russian support for the separatists in the North of Georgia has that and only that as goal; being establish in South Ossetia brings them within close range of the pipeline.

It is also noticeable how they nicely used the start of the Olympics to begin their little war, hoping perhaps the fall out would be less.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2008 04:57 am
Setanta wrote:
I'm not surprised at all to see the E.U. flag in that picture. The Georgians would be nuts not to attempt to spin this as an attack on the stability of Europe.

I think it is obvious that the pipeline from Azerbiajan is the target. Azerbaijan is believed to have the third largest reserves of "light, sweet crude" in the world, after Saudi Arabia and Iraq.


Damned if I know...but her eis an alternative analysis.

Georgia, a Western-oriented democracy—George Bush called the country a "beacon of liberty"—has long wanted to do. In this, the Russians will almost certainly succeed. There is no Western power that has any interest in a military ally that is involved in a major military conflict with Russia.

The Georgian leadership, by contrast, had come to believe that the constant pressure of Russian aggression, coupled with the West's failure to accept Georgia into NATO, compelled them to demonstrate "self-reliance." Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili has been buying weapons in preparation for this moment. Those who know him say he believed a military conflict was inevitable but could be won if conducted cleverly. As of Friday night, with Russian soldiers fighting in South Ossetia—only a few dozen miles from Tblisi, the Georgian capital—it seems as if he might have miscalculated, badly. Russia has not sent 150 tanks across that border in order to lose.....



http://www.slate.com/id/2197155/


Whatever...****.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2008 10:38 am
Paasky--

Normally, I would have immediately invested heavily in your perception of things...that's the "common knowledge" analysis. However, since I've been here, I've learned to "guess again" before buying into the popular belief.

There are all kinds of little busywork going on in those parts...
0 Replies
 
DougWinder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2008 02:28 am
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3061/peacekeeperjv2.jpg<br />
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Aug, 2008 03:19 am
Welcome DougWinder: I'm not taking sides just helping a newbie out.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3061/peacekeeperjv2.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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