Something she ate or something else?

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Hi all,

Sorry I have not been posting much lately - lots going on in every direction.

Today I was putting my 11 year old border collie/springer spanial mix in my jeep to take her and my other dog to our walking spot. She jumped in fine so I didn't notice anything until about 5 mins later. She seemed sleepy & droopy, and even tho she jumped and barked at the trees while I was driving (which she likes to do) she quit after a few tries and just lay back down on the seat, looking like she just didn't feel well. She didn't take much interest in what was going on outside, which isn't like her and she actually curled up and rested on the seat on the way back which she never does with me. This little girl is usually hyperactive on car rides --we didn't go walking of course. I immediately took her back home. I quizzed my other half on what she might have gotten into in their morning walk.

We live in a remote area in B.C. where cougar kills and the resultant deer carcass is common. Other half said she did disappear just for a few minutes this a.m. and when he called her she came out of the woods. We don't know what she might have eaten- if anything- because altho he hiked around looking it's just too big of an area to cover.

We gave her the charcoal that the vet had given us because she's had two poisonings before from spoiled stuff in the woods. She appeared much better a few hours later.

She never vomits when she has these poisonings, or has ever had any diarrhea. She didn't vomit after the charcoal today, but the purpose isn't to make her vomit (the vet didn't say she would do that). My only clue that something was wrong was her sleepiness, which wore off either by itself or because of the charcoal given about 4 hours after the possible ingestion of spoiled deer carcass.

She has an appetite, ate her regular dinner which has so far not come back out either direction, had a normal BM a few hours ago. She had an appetite even when she was feeling sleepy.

A few things are bugging me about this episode:
(1)She didn't have the usual balance problems she's had before when she's been poisoned by cougar kills.

(2)She recovered fast compared to the other two episodes which took about a day for her to feel like herself again. She seems normal but I am still worried.

(3)Could she have had a small stroke? If so, what are the symptoms? Can a vet tell if a dog has had a stroke, and then recovered?

(4) If she ate some bad stuff this a.m. could the charcoal have fixed her that quickly? She ate the stuff about 7:30 a.m. and I didn't notice anything until 1:30 today. By 3-4 pm today she seems back to normal.

Any vets on board here? She's my baby and I'm very stressed about what this episode was.

Thanks!
Bathsheba
PS - She had her visit at the vet for a checkup in April and was given a clean bill of health.

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Hi Bathsheba.
This is not a vet speaking, but we've had dogs for many years, and ofcourse had all sorts of little incidents happen to them. I doubt if it would have been the spoiled deer carcass you mention. My dogs if they had an upset tummy would eat lots of grass and bring up whatever was bothering them. You know your dog and obviously something did happen to her, I don't know how far you live from your nearest Vet, but I would consult one and let him check her over to alleviate your concerns. Hope she fully recovers.
Dutchy.
btw. How was your trip?

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Bathsheba, the signs you describe are too general to make any kind of presumptive diagnosis. For starters, the result of eating rotten meat is not a true "poisoning", but more of a bacterial infection. What makes the meat rotten is bacterial action - usually a Staph or Strep, among others - and ingesting the meat also means ingesting the bacteria and associated toxins. Activated charcoal will prevent further absorption, but does nothing to counteract the toxins already in the system. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that the charcoal had any kind of quick effect. Small strokes often are indicated by a lack of balance and coordination, but is difficult to diagnose unless the pupils are of unequal size. That makes one really suspicious. Also, I'm leery of the fact that the previous two episodes involved no vomiting or diarrhea. Most cases of ingestion of rotten food give way to one or both. In any event, it would be a good idea to have your vet check her out and see if any subtle abnormalites exist. That's the best I can tell you at this time.

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Dutchy wrote:

Hi Bathsheba.
This is not a vet speaking, but we've had dogs for many years, and ofcourse had all sorts of little incidents happen to them. I doubt if it would have been the spoiled deer carcass you mention. My dogs if they had an upset tummy would eat lots of grass and bring up whatever was bothering them. You know your dog and obviously something did happen to her, I don't know how far you live from your nearest Vet, but I would consult one and let him check her over to alleviate your concerns. Hope she fully recovers.
Dutchy.
btw. How was your trip?

Hi Dutchy,

Thanks for your reply! My little girl is fine after the charcoal treatment. She's eaten weird things before and had the same treatment. We did take her to the vet - he ran some tests and she's fine. I think we caught the ingestion of whatever it was in time.

Hey - thanks for the question about the trip. It went well, but the diesel cost an arm & leg. We hauled our camper with us to save on hotel/restaurant bills but the dang trip still cost us a couple grand. Most of that was for fuel to get from B.C. to Calif and back. We're glad to be back in the slower pace of life at home. It's too crazy in the States. Way too frenetic. Seemed like everyone had a cell phone stuck in their ear!

How is your almost-winter season? Do you leave for warmer climates this time of year? Kind of the reverse of what we do here in Canada?

Bathsheba

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Hi Batsheba.

Glad to hear your girl is ok and is her old self again, and that goes for her owner too Smile

Tell me about the cost of car fuel, has gone up more than 100% in the last 12 months down here, one reason I have sold my camper, as travel here covers long distances.

Don't like the fast life either, our real big cities like Sydney and Melbourne, are madhouses to be avoided at all costs. My city, Adelaide, is laid back and the pace is almost rural compared to the others.

Yes, we often do go north to the Tropical parts of Australia in winter, although our winter is nothing like yours, it never snows and temperature always stays above freezing point. Not really winter isn't. Laughing

Cheers
Dutchy

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CowDoc wrote:

Bathsheba, the signs you describe are too general to make any kind of presumptive diagnosis. For starters, the result of eating rotten meat is not a true "poisoning", but more of a bacterial infection. What makes the meat rotten is bacterial action - usually a Staph or Strep, among others - and ingesting the meat also means ingesting the bacteria and associated toxins. Activated charcoal will prevent further absorption, but does nothing to counteract the toxins already in the system. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that the charcoal had any kind of quick effect. Small strokes often are indicated by a lack of balance and coordination, but is difficult to diagnose unless the pupils are of unequal size. That makes one really suspicious. Also, I'm leery of the fact that the previous two episodes involved no vomiting or diarrhea. Most cases of ingestion of rotten food give way to one or both. In any event, it would be a good idea to have your vet check her out and see if any subtle abnormalites exist. That's the best I can tell you at this time.

Thanks, cowdoc! I appreciate your reply. Emma (my baby girl) didn't have a lack of balance or coordination this time. I just noticed she was drowsy acting, like she wanted to sleep. She just wasn't interested in the car ride which was not typical. She's always had a touchy stomach, like her mom Smile

. The vet said she did not have a stroke because it would have lasted longer. Dogs apparently do not have TIA's (what he said). He said dogs don't get hardening of the arteries like we humans do. Another thing he said was that the dog's eyes will twitch back and forth, if they are having a stroke. She has never done that.

Her first episode occurred when she was about a year old; she was wobbly on her feet and drowsy. A vet visit confirmed that she had some yucky stuff in her stomach (he induced vomiting) like some rotten starfish people use for their gardens here. She was fine after a charcoal treatment which apparently absorbed the junk. Yes, you are right - charcoal won't counteract the toxins but it does keep them from absorbing more. It's amazing stuff & can absorb the toxin in the gut and flush it out. It took her a day to start feeling like herself again.

The second episode was a couple of years ago. She was acting droopy, but not drooling or anything. Her balance and coordination were off, and the vet- who saw her during the episode like he did the first episode- said that would be normal because it was a neural toxin affecting her nervous system. More charcoal treatment and by the next day she was fine. The problem with the first two episodes was that we didn't know about dog poisonings, having never been in an area where they could get into stuff. We didn't know until many hours later that she was acting differently for the first and second episodes. Now I know what to look for rather than waiting for the toxins to really take hold. It still took a few hours for her to start feeling like herself even though I started the charcoal as soon as I suspected she'd been into something again.

We had some tests run on Emma a few days ago to check and make sure everything is ok, and the tests came back just fine. What tests should he run? He did the standard blood tests this time. She has had the 'cadillac' of blood tests a few years ago and passed the test fine- everything normal.

I guess it's possible that they can ingest something that won't make them vomit or have diarrhea but will make them have neurological symptoms until the toxins clear, according to our vet......just slightly an off feeling like we humans get when we've eaten something awful.

If you have a website that might explain what dogs do when they eat something weird please let me know. I will willingly talk to my vet more about this if he's missing something.

Bathsheba

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Something she ate or something else?

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