Eye Contact

mismi40 wrote:

Setanta wrote:

In addition to the points which Jespah made, i have long found eye contact a means to completely change a situation. When i buy something in a store, or pay my bill in a restaurant, i say hello, and wait for the cashier to respond and to make eye contact before i pay--and i joke around and flirt with them. It completely alters your experience of dealing with strangers. Making eye contact and smiling is essential to flirting, and casual, relaxed flirting dramatically alters one's experience of society at large. When in a restaurant, i also make eye contact with and flirt with the server--you get much better service, and the server pays more attention to you. There are the rare exceptions, people with whom you deal in public who are total grumps--i suspect, though, that they don't last long in those types of employment.

I LOVE this Setanta...I agree wholeheartedly

I know when I am uncomfortable - like when someone is being too forward or getting in my space I find eye contact very difficult - but in these situations isn't it important to look someone in the eye and be assertive? I am so non-confrontational though..I would just as soon slide away.

I think whether using assertive eye contact works depends on yourself, who you are communicating with and the associated body language that goes with it. And I think that all ties into the fallacy of the original question.

"Eye contact" can be a quick glance, prolonged passive contact, staring, gawking, etc... The rest of the body's language gives the "reader" the clues as to what's going on.

In your case here, aggressive eye contact with passive body language could mean several things to the other person. It could be seen as "She has somewhere to go but is captivated but what I'm saying" or "She hates me" (or 900 other variants Wink

).

I often do as Set mentioned when I'm in resturants. Most servers are fairly friendly and I'm not there to make their lives miserable. I can make eye contact with my arms apart resting on the table and they see it as me being at ease and they'll usually smile and be friendly. If I throw a joke in there they'll usually laugh. Or I can cross my arms across my chest and they might take it as "Oh, this guy's gonna be a fun one! Rolling Eyes

". If I throw the same joke in they might take it as me being sarcastic or insulting.

The individual parts work as a complete package.

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That's pretty damned perceptive for a comatose kitty . . .

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*hic* Sorry Embarrassed

*hic*

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Setanta wrote:

That's pretty damned perceptive for a comatose kitty . . .

a pussy's perspective is often an interesting one..

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No one mentioned eye contact and Asperger's Syndrome?

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People who have the label of Asperger's Syndrome often are unable to mentally process and "do" eye contact. High Functioning Autism (HFA) can prevent the understanding of any form of eye contact. If eye contact is made - it can send a person with AS/HFA spiralling out of control as the inability to understand and process, along with tones of voices - is often too much to comprehend. Not always - sometimes, and dependent on the circumstances.

This does not mean the person is in any way "rude" or "insolent" - however, often it is perceived in that way by society. However, society cannot be blamed per se - people who have AS/HFA often "look normal" (neurotypical) - therfore "they are"

My rolling eyes here are because I have seen this happen too many times.

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Interesting Izzie.

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Re: Eye Contact

Chumly wrote:

With (many / most / all?) other higher-mammals, direct long-lasting eye contact is a sign of aggression / dominance / challenge, but in modern human society it's often enough considered a sign of sincerity / politeness.

In fact, not having direct eye contact (in the process of social interactions) is often enough considered a sign of insincerity / rudeness / disingenuousness.

However, at some unknown point the direct long-lasting eye contact is considered rude (at the least).

Not only that, but I have found in dealing with different people over time, that their expectations and tolerance for the amount and degree of eye contact seems to vary greatly.

Weird!

for interviews 60% is normal, ish, when ur trying to "intimidate" its usually 100% eye contact

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didn't edit quickly enough...

AS/HFA does not mean that mean that the person cannot make eye-contact. They can. However, if it is too demanding on them to read the facial expressions - the REACTION of the person who has AS/HFA to the person making eye-contact is often something that can be a real problem.

Also - people who have AS/HFA - who are defined by this label - IF they are able to make eye-contact, strangely enough they can then be told they don't meet the criteria for a defined label of AS/HFA.

It's hard for them to win the eye-contact "rules" in any way really. Can be extremely frustrating for everyone concerned.

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My friends son does just that.

She is debating on having him tested for autism.
he can not handle long bouts of eye contact.
Long to him is more then what feels like a split second.

The best conversations to have with him are ones where the eye contact is absolutely not necessary, or is extremely casual. As in... making the eye contact, and -immediately- looking away.

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This is such an issue for me...I used to make fairly little eye contact with people. Then I realized that it was part of why people used to label me as "shy," and also part of not being a very good listener. So, because I wanted to be a better listener, I started remembering to make eye contact with people, got completely comfortable with it, and now really prefer to hold eye contact.... So now I do it too much and weird people out. Confused

Can't win.

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Re: Eye Contact

OGIONIK wrote:

for interviews 60% is normal, ish, when ur trying to "intimidate" its usually 100% eye contact

In fact, it's nowhere near as simple as you (and some other posters) claim it to be!

Witness:

Quote:

Culture. In Japan, listeners are taught to focus on a speaker's neck in order to avoid eye contact, while in the U.S., listeners are encouraged to gaze into a speaker's eyes (Burgoon et al. 1989:194).

RESEARCH REPORTS: 1. We generally begin an utterance by looking away and end it by looking back at the listener. While speaking, we alternate between gazing at and gazing away (Nielsen 1962, Argyle and Dean 1965, Kendon 1967).

4. In primates, the unwavering gaze evolved as a sign of dominance and threat (Blurton Jones 1967, Eibl-Eibesfeldt 1975), while gaze avoidance originated as a submissive cue (Altmann 1967).

Witness:

Quote:

...direct eye contact among the Cree and Ojibway of northwestern Ontario was a sign of disrespect as 'you only look inferiors straight in the eye.'

(Native Americans regard) direct prolonged eye contact as invasive. Its avoidance is practiced to protect the personal autonomy of the interactors. (In Latino culture), direct eye contact is often viewed as disrespectful.

Non-verbal communication is a very important part of human communication, and can be a major source of difficulty for language learners in a cross-cultural situation.

When you are dealing with Japanese and they seemingly avoid looking you in the eye, far from being rude or untrustworthy, they are being polite and non-confrontational.

http://www.neurodiversity.com/eye_contact_cultural.html

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There are definitely cultural differences.

However within a single culture -- the one I'm most familiar with is American culture -- there are many rules that apply widely and consistently.

Definitely not simple. But consistent and therefore master-able.

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cyphercat wrote:

Then I realized that it was part of why people used to label me as "shy," and also part of not being a very good listener.

Ha.

This has happened to me on occassion.

If I'm occupied doing something, and a stranger, someone I hardly know, or someone I have no use for (read pompus ass) comes in the room, I'll glance up at them, then go back to what I'm doing. If there's others in the room, they can engage this person, especially the one's I have no use for. I've sometimes learned later they thought I was shy, or intimadated/fearful of them....Ha.

Back in the day, when I still had my looks, I remember I was a member of this commitee that met once a month....There was this old coot who sat on the board, and everytime I looked in his direction, he was staring at me. So, I never looked in his direction. At this event we were having, I was one of those manning the registration table, and he made it a point to get in my line. When he got to me, he said his first (and only) words to me..."Why are you afraid of me?"

I said "I'm not afraid of you, you're old enough to be my grandfather, and you creep me out."

I think his name was spendius.

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When I was in HS and still figuring this stuff out (as in I was an OK speechreader but still had a lot to learn and bluffed a lot as I was learning), I went to a party where everyone had to say something nice about one other person in the room. (The person to your right or something, I don't remember, it was a kind of lame party.) Anyway, this guy said I was a really good listener. I automatically laughed -- I mean, I'm deaf! He kind of blushed and said I know I know but you really pay attention and really listen in a way few people do.

Of course, I pretty much never understood him when we talked, just held eye contact and nodded and smiled at the appropriate points. Oh well.

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By the way -- and this might be a tip for you too, Cyphercat -- "eye contact" doesn't have to mean eye-to-eye contact. People read it as eye contact if you look at their faces. If you actually look at their EYES, they're more likely to get weirded out than if you're less focused. Just sort of generally in the middle of the face, nose-ish, makes people feel like they're being listened to but is a little less intense.

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Can also go back and forth -- unfocused, then flick to eyes for just a second, then unfocused. People don't really notice that much. The more eye-to-eye contact there is the more intimate it is, which can be appropriate or not. Eye-to-face -- in general -- can be friendly without being as intimate.

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oh yeah, that look in the eye, look at some other part of their face, back to the eye, glance away then look back...that's just how I am.

I'm wondering if some who have posted here were actually indicating they are looking at the persons face in general, rather than dead in the eye.

In fact, looking someone right in the eye, and them doing the same to you, is for me, really super weird. I end up looking at either their left or right pupil and I'll realize that's not communicating.

My boss, the fundy, is also very conservative and/or closed mined about many many things. When we're just having casual conversation, I can tell when I've come upon yet another forbidden subject by the way she suddenly just shifts to this dead look in her eyes, where she keeps looking at you, but you know nothing is penetrating. She's put up a wall, and even if you then said something she agrees with, it's too late.

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oh.

soz, hasn't it ever got you in an ackward situation when you're smiling and nodding, but don't know really what's been said?

Even if it's days later...."I told you that the other day, and you agreed."

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I don't do it anymore -- I did it a lot back then though. I think I've said before that there was this guy in HS who insisted on talking to me on the bus on the way to school. I explained that it was exhausting for me (it was way more exhausting back then), (I started losing my hearing at 13 and it was consistently bad by the time I was 15 or 16, that's when I started really learning this stuff) to please not do it, etc. He thought I was being stuck-up or something, I dunno. He kept doing it. I started just reacting minimally -- not pretending to understand exactly but not doing the whole "this is exhausting for me I'd rather not" spiel over and over either. He evidently spilled his guts in one way or another and got pissed at me when it eventually developed I hadn't understood a word. I felt bad but then was like whatever. I'd explained things already, his choice.

Now I would've been more concrete about it -- not even looked at him, looked out the window or moved or something if he insisted -- but I was very much figuring this stuff out still. (Surprise surprise, he's become a locally famous radio personality.)

I do still have to do some bluffing to get anywhere -- if I say "sorry I missed that" after every word, there would be no flow and I'd never get anything. I just kind of let things float and then there will be something I do catch that causes everything that was said before that to come into focus. If it's an important conversation, and I'm waiting but it never comes into focus, I'll interrupt and say "sorry, I got when you said ___ but I haven't quite caught what you said after that..." If it's a basically unimportant conversation and not gelling but not worth pursuing, I nonetheless keep an eye out for markers of "something important being said." It hasn't happened in probably 20 years that something really important is said to me and I have no idea. (Er, as far as I know... Laughing

)

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