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Transport fuels from biomass

 
 
dadpad
 
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2008 06:49 am
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 746 • Replies: 5
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Apr, 2008 09:45 am
It will never compete with the oil companies pumping it out of the ground.

And what about forest fires?
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 01:25 pm
spendius wrote:
It will never compete with the oil companies pumping it out of the ground.


Actually, I do believe that's slowing down so biomass will be able to compete.

Quote:
And what about forest fires?


What about forest fires?
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Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 01:32 pm
Biofuel is a bad bandwagon. It is not a legitimate replacement for oil and will cost the environment just as much if not more if this silly push continues.

I have used cars that run on biofuel in Brazil, which probably has the greatest percentage of automobiles using biofuel on earth and I know very well that in some cases it's sustainable (if you discount the deforestation and impact on food resources) but it is simply not a globally sustainable model and often requires as much energy to produce it as it itself provides.

Hybrids, plug-ins and hybrid plug-ins are the best ideas around, along with a "smart grid".
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dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2008 03:01 am
Robert Gentel wrote:
Biofuel is a bad bandwagon. It is not a legitimate replacement for oil and will cost the environment just as much if not more if this silly push continues.

I have used cars that run on biofuel in Brazil, which probably has the greatest percentage of automobiles using biofuel on earth and I know very well that in some cases it's sustainable (if you discount the deforestation and impact on food resources) but it is simply not a globally sustainable model and often requires as much energy to produce it as it itself provides.

Hybrids, plug-ins and hybrid plug-ins are the best ideas around, along with a "smart grid".


Robert, The model proposed above is a re-afforestation model. It assumes planting will take place on previously cleared grazing land currently unsuitable for cropping and/or as a crop rotation. One method currently being trialled for the production of eucalyptus oil and carbon credits is alley farming, alternating rows of deep rooted multi stemmed eucalypts with conventional cropping.

Forest fires are a concern even with fire breaks however generaly speaking plantations have very little undergrowth and or ground layer fuel to support fire. I have seen fires run into a blue gum pulp plantation and stop within the first 2 or 3 rows. The mosaic system proposed ie some grassland, some early age, some medium age and some later age trees would make fire management much much easier.

Major environmental gains such as reduced salinty, lower groundwater tables, increased biodiversity ( native birds, animals) would be a bi product.

Personally I feel real answers to energy supply are by reductions in consumption. turn off advertising signs office lights etc but should also include developing an energy supply from of each of the major green technologies, solar, wind, wave, geothermal, and biofuels as well as enhanced current technology (coal oil nuclear) being used.

Can you give more detail on exactly what you mean by hybrid, plugins and smart grid?
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Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2008 01:39 pm
dadpad wrote:

Can you give more detail on exactly what you mean by hybrid, plugins and smart grid?


You are probably already familiar with typical hybrid cars.

Plugins are electric cars that charge off of a regular home electrical outlet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid

A "smart grid" is basically a grid with computing involved, that handles energy more atomically and allows pricing by the hour and season, rewarding those who shift to off-peak hours. But a big difference is that it should allow end-user "upload" of energy. If you have a solar panel any excess or unused energy right now would likely be wasted. In a smart grid you should be able to contribute that energy back, and thusly the grid can also handle diverse energy sources that are, alone, insufficient to solve a problem but that together can contribute more significantly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid (this is about the plugin autos interfacing with the grid).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage (this is about the simple concept of storing energy that can be returned to the grid at peak times).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_generation (this is about the concept of decentralizing the generation of power to some degree, making it more efficient).
http://www.gridwise.org/pdf/061017_SDSmartGridStudyFINAL.pdf (a study on smart grids for San Diego, where I used to live)

Google.org, Google's non-profit is getting behind this technology, and they tie the dots together here:
http://google.org/recharge/
http://google.org/recharge/overview.html
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