People who shouldn't have goldfish, nevermind kids

It's a great question Eva...honestly - I think I will have to take it day by day and see. They are just 7 and 4 right now, so I am a ways off. I wonder - it's not just about being smart, and knowing who to stay away from - it is also about being stong enough to get away if you need to....but then I could apply that to myself. I would say until I know that my boys understand that adults are not always good and you can't always trust what they say. So sad. And maybe when I see that they have good judgement of their own....I have to let go someday - but not yet

At 7 and 4, they certainly can't fend for themselves. I think it's pretty clear cut then.

I wish it were still clear cut. My son is now 5'6" and has a black belt. He's pretty smart about people and resourceful enough to know how to get help in most situations. But the problem with teenagers is judgment. They don't recognize trouble, and they assume someone else will always take care of things.

I've started letting go in ways that feel fairly safe to me. For instance, when we go to the grocery store or Wal-Mart, sometimes I'll just give him some cash, tell him what we need, and ask him to get it while I wait in the car. Sometimes I even give him a short list. He has his own cell phone, so when we go places and he wants to go off on his own, he can get a hold of us easily. And...things like that. Still, we pretty much always know where he is or we know what adults are supervising. But I'm starting to wonder...should we?

Any other parents of teenagers out there?

I'm getting there Eva! Mine will be 12 next month.

Last year, I tested her and left her alone for 1 hour while I ran to the store.
During that time she called a friend and had her come over (even though
I asked her not to) and they started making spaghetti, turned on the wrong burner at the stove and burned some wooden shakers.

I was livid when I got home, and from then on she had to tag along with me again, even for small errands.

This year, I tried again and she's been very responsible so far and follows my instructions, because she know what will happen, if she doesn't. I don't leave her alone longer than 1 hour, as my nerves couldn't take much more, but as she gets older I have to ease the rope, and have to let her be independent - age appropriate, of course.

She went with four of her friends to a movie alone - that is, she was
dropped off and picked up, but during the movie, the girls were alone.
Admittedly, I was a bit apprehensive, but the girls behaved properly.

I've left SonofEva alone at home for a few hours for the past 2-3 years and he's been fine. He knows the rules. He can't let anyone else in the house. He's been very responsible when he's left at home by himself. And I expect that of a 13 year old. After all, I was babysitting when I was 13.

I am more unsure of how much public freedom to allow him. Do I suggest he ride his bike and turn him loose in this part of town? He could ride a couple of miles, easy.

IMO, unless you are going totally nutso with supervision, this is something only you can decide. Little by little, you just have to let go and hope/pray/curse until they show back up again and you can see that they still have all their limbs.

When my daughter was 13 we lived in a very rural area so it was easy to let her go out in the neighborhood or over to a friend's house. If it had been a more congested area I don't know that I would have let her out of the house on a lot of those occassions.

Most afterschool programs - daycare sort of things - are for up to 12 years old or until 6th grade. What do you do when they turn 13 or begin 7th grade? Can they all of a sudden be able to care for themselves and get home by themselves?

Most adolescents are very social creatures. Chances are whatever your 12 - 17 year old wants to do includes doing it with other 12 - 17 year olds. We started letting our girls 'hang out' with friends in public areas when they were 12/13. At 15 and 17 we now see the younger one when she wakes up at noon and wants to be driven somewhere and we see the 17 year old occasionally when she stops in to change clothes before heading back out again. It was a slow and gradual transition and compared to many/most of my contemporaries here I was very conservative.

I think it all depends on the maturity of a child and where you live. Some 13 year olds are mature as hell, while others are quite the opposite, so the question of when you can give your child more freedom, is when that particular child was mature enough.

If I was a child these days, I would have prefered to grow up in the country, just to have more freedom.

I was also babysitting at 13 (even younger) and I couldn't have imagined growing up and being connected at my mothers hip. These days, we have no choice but to have to force our kids to live this way and I truly feel sorry for the kids. It's not their fault, nor our fault, it just is.

I listened to a really provocative interview with Matt Hern about his new book last night.



The particular focus in last night's interview was on the effect on children of North America's current obsession with safety.

I'm going to try and get a copy into a local library to read.

There's a link to the interview on this page.

link to Matt's three very challenging books

I just had a bunch of conversations about this, will be back...

Thanks for the links, Beth. That's a book I'm very interested in reading.