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Being wrong for the right reasons...

 
 
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Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 01:39 pm
Okay, so what if the vote was 6 to 6 and Barry voted the way he wanted to? What then?

I'm sure his constituents make sure he isn't reelected. I'm sure they elect someone who is ideologically more alligned with them regarding gay rights.

It seems gay rights might have won the battle but lost the war.

By voting the way he did he retained the trust of his constituents and is in a better position to work to change their attitude.

I still don't think Barry made the right decision, but I do think he made the smart decision.
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Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 02:18 pm
Maybe, but it seems to me like he loses anyway. In this particular case, he's firmly stated his support for gay marriage. Those vehemently against gay marriage aren't going to believe he's changed his mind. I think they will support a more radical opponent regardless. A few might be happy that he can be strong-armed. Those constituents (and there are many in DC besides those represented by the black ministers present at the meeting) who support gay marriage might now see Barry as someone who could have won the battle, but instead surrendered and can't be trusted to follow through on his rhetoric. It seems to me like he loses the battle, loses the war and has to look at himself in the mirror knowing he could have made a difference.
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Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 02:46 pm
I looked up the DC city council. Barry is the councilman for the 8th ward. So I looked up the 8th ward. The first link on the page starts like this:

Quote:
We lock the doors of our car from the inside as we cross
the Anacostia River going eastward. We are now in a supposedly
no-go area for whites. A district with 77,000 inhabitants
(over 90% black) of which even a black policeman tells us he
would not enter unarmed at night. This is a district where
more than 3.000 people have been murdered since 1960.
Where in one summer evening in 2007, four different shootings
led to eight victims within two hours. This is a district
of which a former criminal says, “When we see teenagers, we
cross the street. That is how scared we are of our kids.”


Only every second resident has a job. Every third lives below
the poverty line. Two out of three children grow up without
their father. Nowhere else in the city are there as many high
school dropouts (34%) and as many overweight people (71%,
33% of them obese). We are in the capital of the richest country
in the world: Washington, DC. However, this is a place
where tourists and even most Congressmen never venture.
Even some of the city’s street maps do not clearly detail this
district. We fi nd ourselves in the infamous Ward 8 district in
Southeast DC, one and a half miles from the Capitol. The 8th
Ward leads nearly in every negative statistic of Washington’s
eight districts. Ward 7, which neighbors the 8th Ward, follows
a close second.


Originally, we had planned to write a report on the forgotten
people and the misery that exists in the shadow of the Capitol.
Three months and countless rides across the Anacostia
River later, during which nothing bad ever happened to us,
we are coming to the conclusion: We are a few years too late ➟


to write the report we had envisioned. It is still dangerous
here, and the high levels of poverty and desperation are
striking, but: the Ward 8 is changing. Only its reputation
has remained the same. We have since decided to write a
report about change and how such change can materialize.
What roles do civil engagement, careful city planning,
and free market forces play? For one man this
answer is simple: Washington DC’s former two-time
Mayor Marion Barry (1979–1991 and 1995–1999), who
has been the Councilmember of Ward 8 since 2004: “My
leadership”.


I haven't read the whole paper (and don't know if I will) but I did read enough to see that Barry (who won with 96% of the vote) has made some positive changes in the lives of a disenfranchised group of people.

http://www.fesdc.org/documents/MiseryandChange_final_003.pdf

Maybe he is just playing politics and they'll ditch him at their next chance or maybe he does really work for the people of Ward 8.
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  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 02:52 pm
I thought this was interesting, from Ta-Nehisi Coates:

Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote:
one of his commenters on a previous post wrote:
Focusing on Barry's opposition to recognizing gay marriage causes us to miss the forest for the trees; in a majority black city with a majority black political leadership, the City Council voted overwhelmingly (12 to 1) IN SUPPORT of recognizing gay marriage (albeit ones performed outside of DC). This represents a great political victory for the gay rights movements, and refutes the meme which claims that the African-American community is monolithically, implacably, and irresolutely opposed to recognizing gay civil marriage.


I don't think that can be said loudly enough. There are 12 members of the City Council. Seven of them are black. One is Marion Barry. To anyone who's followed Barry's career, I'm not sure why "Marion Barry Is A Demagogue" is breaking news. It's really wrong to erase the other six votes on that measure, and make Barry the face of blacks on the Council, and blacks in the City.


http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/05/another_point_on_barry_and_gays.php
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Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 03:05 pm
Quote:
and refutes the meme which claims that the African-American community is monolithically, implacably, and irresolutely opposed to recognizing gay civil marriage


I don't know if the majority of black people are irresolutely opposed to gay marriage or not, but I don't think this comment refutes anything because we don't know if the other councilmembers voted with our against their constituents.
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  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 03:31 pm
Yeah, I've been looking that up.

Harry Thomas Jr. voted "yes," is black, and his ward (5) is the second-poorest Ward after Ward 8 -- I can't find any racial demographics (just economic) but from references to it, it seems to also be a majority-black ward. Haven't found anything about Thomas' constituents being mad at him, though of course it's possible that I'm just not finding it, rather than that they're not mad at him.

That's all kind of an aside, though, not a direct claim--> refute sort of thing. Your post reminded me of Coates' point, which I thought was a good one.

Anyway... we've gotten away from "right reasons" and towards "smart reasons." I still think that there isn't some blanket rightness about politicians voting for what (they think that) the majority of their constituents want, no matter what the issue may be.

If we must hold both the euthanasia guy and Barry to the same narrow standard -- and I'd prefer something less rigid, especially something that takes into account the end result -- I'd come down on the side of saying that if the euthanasia guy (sorry I forgot his name) really strongly personally opposed euthanasia, he either shouldn't have signed it or else should have recused himself. Not that Barry did the right thing by going against his own long-standing beliefs and actions in an attempt to stay in power.
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Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 03:54 pm
I think this particular case if very interesting because Barry's approval rating is not going to disappear because he votes his conscience on this issue. After all, the vote was 12-1. If he had voted his standard position, it would have been 13-0 and he's just one councilman in a pack. By voting the other way, he is actually making himself stand out. No one would have commented if he voted yes, it wouldn't have even been news. By voting no, he's positioned himself for something. Some of us will say he's a champion for the people, some will say he's a hypocrite, but everyone's talking about him. I wonder if he's considering a run for mayor again. Is that allowed in DC or is he term limited?
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  2  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 04:00 pm
Yeah, that's definitely my take on it at this point -- not necessarily that he's trying to run for mayor again (although he evidently is trying to distance himself from Fenty/ claim a different demographic), but that he saw this as an opportunity to make some headlines and get some attention. And that his motivation was more about that, ultimately, than either his personal beliefs or a desire to honor his constituents' (differing) beliefs.
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Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 10:28 pm

I'm sure someone will point out what i've missed, but i really don't get one thing.
If most of his constituents are black, and against gay rights, and Barry has always been for gay rights, how did he get elected there in the first place?

His remarks seem a bit ...off, to me.
"All hell is going to break loose."
"We may have a civil war. "
"The black community is just adamant against this.''

Okay - so its an important and heated topic.
But he knew which way the vote was going.
If he was really concerned with helping the black community come to terms with the passing of the bill, why put an element of doubt in their minds as to the justification of it, by voting against it? Especially when he wanted it!.
It has already been said that everyone was surprised by his vote - so they were expecting him to vote yes. Why then, didn't he?

Unless he was heavily petitioned and lobbied by the public (it doesn't say that but maybe he was) I don't get it.

Although i accept there is a problem, he still seems a bit presumptuous inferring black people are not only homophobic but likely to riot. He could have chosen to presume instead, that because of his having been all this time for gay rights, his constituents would accept him voting yes.

Maybe his life was threatened. It happens.

If he hadn't done a u-turn - If he'd announced that he had voted the way he truly believed was right- perhaps it still would have been okay for him. Maybe that kind of conviction was the thing about him which got them on his side in the first place.

I would think that he has made a very bad mistake - one which will lose him trust - maybe even lose him support and respect.

(Just some distant thoughts on an interesting thread)


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