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Scary Black Guns

 
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Feb, 2007 03:35 pm
cjhsa wrote:
I agree using full auto for hunting is extreme. Do you know anyone who does it? First off, you have to get a L3 FFL to even posess a full auto. But why not a semi-auto AK for deer? Compared to a 30-06? Do tell.

Many folks choose AK's when hunting dangerous game because of their reliability in harsh conditions, and packability.

Do I need to define semi-auto for a few folks? (not f-man of course)

Well deer can be dangerous too - "A deer being kept in a pen attacked and killed his owner Sunday, state police said.

The buck that killed Ronald Donah, 43, was among about a half dozen deer penned up on his property in Ellenburg, about 180 miles north of Albany, said state Trooper Joseph House."
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Feb, 2007 03:35 pm
Shotguns for what? Deer?

North of the midpoint of the LP almost everyone uses rifles for deer/bear/elk. Shotguns simply don't have the range.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Feb, 2007 04:52 pm
Bella Dea wrote:
cjhsa wrote:

Many folks choose AK's when hunting dangerous game because of their reliability in harsh conditions, and packability.



What kind of "conditions" do you hunt in? If in Michigan, like I said all the hunters I know did just fine with shotguns.


The Browning A5 is a shotgun. Does that help. Some states in the East require a shotgun for deer, by the way, while other states prohibit deer hunting with anything less than 25 caliber.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Feb, 2007 06:29 pm
The AWB was a ban on scary looking weapons, nothing more. See the scary looking gun? How about the scary looking wild pigs?

http://www.elmachogrande.com/pictures/hog03.JPG
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Feb, 2007 07:19 pm
Bella Dea wrote:

And what do you use them for?

Hunting? If so, why?
Why not use just a shotgun?

I grew up in an area full of hunters and not ONE of them used a semi. Not one. In fact, no real hunter I know even now uses one.


Bella Dea wrote:
Because one is capable of rapid fire. The other is not.

What is the purpose of rapid fire?


From reading your posts it appears that you have the concept of what a shotgun is/isn't confiused with the difference between a manual action/semi-automartic/automatic action is.

Firearms are made in:
a.) single shot (the "action" must be opened and a new round of ammunition manually loaded into the chamber after each shot)

b.) manual action (i.e. pump, lever or bolt action where manually activating the mechanism loads the next round into the chamber from a stored well within the firearm after each shot.)

c.) Semi-automatic (where the firarm uses internal mechanisims and "re-couped" energy from a fired round to load the next round into the chamber after each shot but only does this once each time the trigger is pulled.)

and d.) Automatic (where the firearm performs in the same sort of manner as a semi-automatic but continues to fire and reload as long as the trigger is held in the pulled position.)

Those 4 main action types are independent of the type of projectile the firearm expels. You can find all of those action types in shotguns, rifles or handguns so the fact that someone may use a shotgun doesn't preclude them from using a semi-automatic. The idea that "one is rapid fire and the other isn't" is simply false.

The choice of what type of action and what type of projectile to use for hunting is also dependent on the purpose and type of hunting one is doing. Shotguns work well for bird hunting, upland game (rabbits, etc..) and in areas where the hunting area is small and the game is likely to come within the shotgun's very limited effective range. In many areas hunting is limited to "shotguns only" not because the shotgun is the best firearm to use to hunt with but because of concerns with how close houses are to the hunting areas.

Outside of those conditions, a shotgun is pretty much useless. No one is going to shoot a deer, elk, mountain goat, etc.. at ranges or 200-400 yards with a shotgun - and those conditions are readily and widely available in most of the midwest, the south and the mountain west.

Once you have decided on the type of action and the type of projectile you'd also have to look at the size of the projectile and the type of casing that is best suited for the particular task at hand.

You may not know anyone that uses a semi-automatic for hunting but the idea that no "real hunter" uses them is just silly. Hundreds of thousands of people use them and they are just as "real" as any hunter you might know.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Feb, 2007 08:26 pm
youve evaded my question about the guns on the table on page 1. Do any of these have full auto options? and if so, why?
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Feb, 2007 08:35 pm
Are you asking if any of them are in fact, full auto?

I don't know. Any of them could be.

That pic looks like the "scary gun rack" at most dealers these days, like Gander Mountain and Cabelas. Horrible stores, those.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Feb, 2007 08:52 pm
exactly, you can go purchase a semi and then go to a gun show and get the 3 burst or 5 burst full auto "after market kit". Every gun show Ive been to has a series of well peopled booths with lots of drooling Rambo wannabees all looking at the videos on how to shoulder your semi so it can shoot like a full auto (I wonder why they do this ? surely it cant be for accuracy for that important take down shot) Then the guys buy their full auto conversion kits for their MArlins. (I admit I bought one for my 22, and I bought a banana clip too) Why did I do that? I was coerced by the marketing thats what.

You arent protecting a second amendment right by converting a semi to a full auto .Especially since you bought the scariest looking model in the store.
If the customers werent there Cabelas wouldnt sell the ****. Anyway in PA we can buy 50 guns a month and not even be a dealer. WTF am I gonna do with 50 guns a month? Go hunting more often? I doubt it. Guns become an obsession . Theyre just a tool , and a most dangerous one that , even though they have a use around the farm and in hunting, I dont think I need a gun with a 3000 fps muzzle v. Theres no skill required .

Are you saying the shotgun had a full auto option? dont we call that a street sweeper? Why a bull barrel on a shotgun anyway?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Feb, 2007 09:14 pm
farmerman wrote:
exactly, you can go purchase a semi and then go to a gun show and get the 3 burst or 5 burst full auto "after market kit". Every gun show Ive been to has a series of well peopled booths with lots of drooling Rambo wannabees all looking at the videos on how to shoulder your semi so it can shoot like a full auto (I wonder why they do this ? surely it cant be for accuracy for that important take down shot) Then the guys buy their full auto conversion kits for their MArlins. (I admit I bought one for my 22, and I bought a banana clip too) Why did I do that? I was coerced by the marketing thats what.

You arent protecting a second amendment right by converting a semi to a full auto .Especially since you bought the scariest looking model in the store.
If the customers werent there Cabelas wouldnt sell the ****. Anyway in PA we can buy 50 guns a month and not even be a dealer. WTF am I gonna do with 50 guns a month? Go hunting more often? I doubt it. Guns become an obsession . Theyre just a tool , and a most dangerous one that , even though they have a use around the farm and in hunting, I dont think I need a gun with a 3000 fps muzzle v. Theres no skill required .

Are you saying the shotgun had a full auto option? dont we call that a street sweeper? Why a bull barrel on a shotgun anyway?



Small dick, small brain or small heart.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Feb, 2007 09:18 pm
F-man bought the banana clip. Smile
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Feb, 2007 06:41 am
cjhsa wrote:
F-man bought the banana clip. Smile


And you ignored his questions.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Feb, 2007 06:59 am
Hardly, he answered them for the most part himself, and I was going to bed.

Full auto shotguns are sold to SWAT and other "elite" paramilitary squads. I should be able to own one too.

The 2nd isn't about hunting, in fact it isn't mentioned in there at all. Time to get back to defending the 2nd to the fullest.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Feb, 2007 07:20 am
farmerman wrote:
exactly, you can go purchase a semi and then go to a gun show and get the 3 burst or 5 burst full auto "after market kit". Every gun show Ive been to has a series of well peopled booths with lots of drooling Rambo wannabees all looking at the videos on how to shoulder your semi so it can shoot like a full auto (I wonder why they do this ? surely it cant be for accuracy for that important take down shot) Then the guys buy their full auto conversion kits for their MArlins. (I admit I bought one for my 22, and I bought a banana clip too) Why did I do that? I was coerced by the marketing thats what.


I find these sorts of comments to be very curious. I've been to hundreds of gun shows and never once seen a conversion kit for sale at one.

Quote:

You arent protecting a second amendment right by converting a semi to a full auto


Agreed. In fact, you'd be breaking the law as you have admitted you did above.

Quote:
Are you saying the shotgun had a full auto option? dont we call that a street sweeper? Why a bull barrel on a shotgun anyway?


A Streetsweeper is a DAO pump action shotgun. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAO-12 ) They are a weapon-of-choice for criminals not because of the action type, but because of the magazine capacity.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Feb, 2007 07:47 am
Fishin, I think F-man just said he bought a banana clip - one of those scary looking magazines. He didn't say he converted a gun to full auto without an L3FFL, or did he?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Feb, 2007 07:52 am
fishin wrote:

I find these sorts of comments to be very curious. I've been to hundreds of gun shows and never once seen a conversion kit for sale at one.


Even on 'serious' German hunting sites you find notices that such is illegal with hunting but hunters could buy it legally ... "for different use".
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Feb, 2007 08:02 am
For that matter there are kits that convert semi-autos to "kinda sorta full auto" that are perfectly legal. Personally, I like to learn the trigger and simulate it myself. Practice is all it takes. A gun can only cycle so fast.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Feb, 2007 08:02 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
fishin wrote:

I find these sorts of comments to be very curious. I've been to hundreds of gun shows and never once seen a conversion kit for sale at one.


Even on 'serious' German hunting sites you find notices that such is illegal with hunting but hunters could buy it legally ... "for different use".


"Different use"??? Like for making can openers? Very Happy I wonder what other uses there would be for a trigger mechanism...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Feb, 2007 08:03 am
Not for hunting, that is :wink:
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Feb, 2007 09:22 am
Folks really need to get their head around this issue. There are no "bad" guns, just bad people. Guns are just a tool.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Feb, 2007 11:26 am
http://www.asmainegoes.com/images/assault_sml.jpg
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