Café Etiquette

hel-loooo?


Did I kill this thread?

I often wonder about how business is affected when the cafés let patrons stay there for as long as they want. Some cafés around here do make general announcements every few hours "politely" asking people who've been there for a while to wrap up and make room for new patrons. But I really get the impression that letting people linger is good for business. I know that when I stay for more than, say, two hours, I usually buy another drink or snack anyway. I also get the impression that the many cafés in my neighborhood benefit from each other... whenever I go to one place that turns out to be packed, I just migrate to another one anyway. It would be interesting to compare the numbers of cafés with "time limits" vs. cafés that don't... there is a place near me that tries to impose a 2-hour limit, which has the adverse affect of discouraging me from going there.

hmm...I guess it would just be strange to me to sit there for 2 hours, drinking coffee, working on a laptop.

That's what I have my home for.

Good coffee, can sit around in my bathrobe with a cat in my lap.

If you are a person who really isn't into saying "share my table" and if you did you'd still have your nose in a book, newspaper or laptop, why are you bothering to schlep around when you can do that at home? Taking the computer out of the equation, why don't you take your coffee to the park, library or something? As far as the laptop, don't people find it really distracting trying to work with all the comings and goings?

I've gone into a starbucks maybe twice in my life. I thought it was noisy.

Oh, a while back I met shewolf and boomerang and mo at some coffee shop. It was nice seeing them, but I would have been just as happy asking them to come to my house.

I think actually I might have, but boomerang didn't know her way around.

The coffee house, is that just some way to sit around and look cool or something?

Educate me.

I don't know quite why, I'll have to cogitate, but I have always enjoyed a lot of public places. I guess it started when I was about eight, going to Shraft's with my mother after shopping during that year we lived in New York City. I enjoyed, when I was about eighteen, going to diners (I'll call them that so as not to confuse the issue by calling them coffee shops) with friends, and enjoyed what might have been the tail end of the beat-coffee house type establishments, say around 1960. As I've gotten older I've liked more and more cities, walking around in them, just being in them, to one degree or another. Lallygagging in a coffee place, reading a bit of a book, always somewhat aware of the atmosphere in the room, is my idea of a fine time.

These places have different personalities. From my not very long experience with italy, people stop in for an espresso, drink it while standing, and move along in their day in quick order. At a certain cafe in northern california, one could probably stay hours before anyone would frown. I didn't stay a lot of hours, and I would order something every so often, and would not overstay if it was crowded. That might be on a weekend day, when I had a series of errands and wanted a break.

The Rose Cafe in Venice (California) is a favorite of mine, has been for years. It was and probably still owned by members of a family from India. It sits at a fairly prominent intersection, a few blocks from the beach, and cattycorner to Gold's Gym, at least at some point next door to a major ad agency; some kind of college across the street - a friend got a masters in marriage and family counselling at the school.

They have a small shop with interesting items, a slight bit of tableware, watches, neat cards, great candy, whatever. They've an ongoing stand at the counter and order section for things like lattes and croissants, and a variety of stuff for lunch, and terrific desserts. Then there's a more formal dining section and dining section outdoors. I forgot, there is also a patio area for the counter-service part of the business. They've a notbad selection of newspapers out streetside. They've art all over the place - I've had my work shown there a couple of times, even sold a painting for good money. The clientele varies, some pretty sophisticated folks, some not at all.

That place is my office when I visit LA. I'll meet an old colleague at, say, 8:30 in the morning, my ex hub at, say, 9:30, he'll leave and I'll think about leaving, but then Bob will show up, or some other old pal. Yes, I keep the table, but by the time I've left I may have ordered three times.
Place is a cheerful boost, to me.

Back to Italy, I don't know if it's still true, or is true all over the country, but it used to be that once you had a table it was yours, at least re dining...

Coffeehouses and college are inextricably linked, to me. I used to do that all the time, in Madison.

It wasn't about looking cool per se -- more the laid-back social element. For me, "study time" at the coffee house usually went something like:

- Arrive -- smile at acquaintances on the way in (and there were always acquaintances).

- Order.

- Take coffee/ food and look for a place to sit.

- If an open table, take it. If not, decide which acquaintance to approach to ask if it's OK to sit with them. (Since it was poor form to say "no," pay close attention to body language, the ones who wanted to be left alone would usually become very engrossed in their studies, the ones who were open to chat would at least make eye contact and usually overtly wave me over).

- If an open table, expect acquaintances to stop by and say hi (always on their way out at least if they're busy).

- Start studying (this was pre-laptop, usually involved books and handwritten notes).

- Engage in people-watching whenever you get bored.

- If you get really bored, either go find an acquaintance or strike up a conversation with neighbor.

- After that's gone on for a while, go back to studying.

And on, in a fluid way, with new friendships made, engrossing conversations embarked upon, or just people-watching.

I'd do my serious, don't-disturb-me studying at home, but that kind of studying slash socializing was one of my favorite things about college.

play bridge

Well, bridge was big back at the Smoker at Mount St. Mary's (my first year/college). I didn't hang out as I had to get to my job and never did learn how to play bridge... surely an oversight as I was crazy for canasta at twelve).

Oh, and I liked Soz' telling of the 'don't sit here, don't ask' maneuvers and the wave... well, her whole description of the scene.

Interesting answers.

osso, yeah that makes sense to me, get your espresso and get on with the day.

soz, when you said "get bored" well, that would be my signal to leave. Not to be out of place, but you do have the advantage of being able to look down to study or read and not get distracted by the noise.

I can't concentrate even on reading for enjoyment if there's conversations going on.

At home I have top of the line head phones for the shooting range that I use to read if Mr. Tea is going to watch TV.

That and my leapard skin bathrobe, I'm quite a sight.

We used to play chess in the coffee houses.

Well, I like the new concept of Starbucks (at least here in southern Cal)
where they have small sofas and comfortable chairs to sit in and the
table is a small side table - suggesting that more people can share the
space.

Almost every Friday I go there with a friend while our children are at
a class nearby. We sit there on the sofa for one hour, chat nicely, have a cup of tea and leave.

To me, a coffee house is a place to meet, chat and enjoy other people -
why sit alone on a table? From a business standpoint is is also better
when more people sit together on one table, as 5 people occupying
5 tables with a $ 2.00 coffee. Rents are high in coffe houses since
they typically rent in desirable locations.

I think that depends largely on personality. I have many many many sound issues. That is part of the reason why I never could study in the library. I am violently annoyed by whispering and paper sounds - leafing through books, crinkling, shuffling....gah!
But I can read and read and write and write in a loud coffee shop no problem. Somehow the backdrop of conversations creates a perfect white noise for me to be able to concentrate better than anywhere else. At home I am always distracted by things, projects, abominable roommate #3... so coffeeshop has always been the answer for me. If it's crowded and i feel like others can use the space, I leave. But if there are other tables open, I linger...then buy another drink or a snack to pay for my table... plus i often pay for the wireless connection too - which is usually on hourly basis. So i will stay an hour or two after I pay that.

I'm not allowed in most coffee shops, I slurp.

PshAW!



Sorry, but this is one that I get a lot that is very far from the truth. I am hypersensitive to movement, of any kind. I have passed notes to people who were incessantly bouncing their crossed leg to beg them to stop as the visual interference drove me absolutely insane. (It's the visual equivalent of boop.... boop... boop... boop...)

It's a mode thing. If I was in that mode, I stayed in my room and locked the door. (During the time we're talking about, I was usually in a dorm or in a housing co-op.) If I was in that mode and had to go out, I'd either pass notes or walk out of class if someone was bouncing, or repetitively twisting their hair, or tapping their pen against their teeth, or... I rely on my eyes for all information and can't turn that off (closing my eyes and then having NO idea what is happening is not an option).

This was a different mode. It was a fun mode. Don't see what's wrong with it. Coffeehouses actively encouraged it. They tended to have a zillion small tables and even if the turnover was slow, coffeehouses in Madison do very, very well. (There are something like 8 on State Street alone, within the span of a few blocks.)

In my life... (was that norwegian wood?) there were diners and coffee shops and coffee houses and now... coffee places. Diners and coffee shops had a bunch of food as well as dishwater coffee.


I somewhat understand about the noise thing, dag. I grew up an only child in a quiet family that virtually never played the few records in the credenza.
I can and have had trouble doing math on grading and drainage or sizing pipe (pre internet) with loud music or loud conversations, and, er, raucous laughter. STFU! Though I don't mind at least some music when I'm playing with a design, re what goes where.

Paper rustling hasn't bothered me, but intrusive conversation can, in the studio.
Interesting, in that I like street life. I guess I have different channels to switch to, re comfort.

That's a good way of putting it too, channels.

I generally am much more tolerant of this stuff now -- at the time I was not yet fluent in ASL and much more on edge. Didn't have as many easy-communication outlets. I shifted more easily into "CANNOT STAND THIS" mode.

When I went out to a coffeehouse (or the Terrace, similar rules and similar idea), it was with the understanding that I was in the mood for a social mileu with studying being part of it but not necessarily the main point at the moment. Even if I wasn't in the mood to talk to people at that moment, I love people-watching.

Memorial Union Terrace -- fabulous place. My co-op is on the shore at the far left in the picture -- in other words a short walk. Spent TONS of time here.

Interesting about all your sensitivity to the movements, Soz. Maybe heightened for you because of the hearing issues? Or did you notice that before?. Even in my days of great hearing I wouldn't like an exercise class, even a silent one, moving in front of me while I was trying to size pipe relative to the gpm/psi flow.. not that that is that hard, it isn't, but needs attention at the time.

I had sound issues more than sight issues before I became deaf. My parents putting away paper bags after going grocery shopping was pure torture. There was a time when I was maybe 11 or so when I'd take my food into my room to eat because I couldn't stand the sound of my parents' chewing. Etc.

The movement issues are definitely related to deafness, my reliance on my eyes, having to constantly gather visual info. My eyesight hasn't gotten better in the sense of 20/20 or whatever, but my peripheral vision is outstanding (I'm always shocking optometrists), this is one measurable difference in the commonly-held "one sense makes up for lack of other(s)" belief.

Basically the motions that bother me most are the ones that could possibly be construed to be intended to get my attention, but are not. (Not only obvious but certain kinds of hand movements people make just before they're about to ask someone a question, etc.) So it's kind of like "hey!" -nothing- "hey!" -nothing- "hey!" -- you get the idea. Exhausting if I'm not in the right mode. (That's something else I'm better at now, just more experience with what is general background "noise" and what I need to pay attention to.)

Sozlet has been for the last few months on a kick of trying to scare me -- she hasn't managed to sneak up on me yet. I see a flicker of shadows changing, a tiny reflection, or just her moving somewhere where she thinks I can't possibly see her. (She's getting very frustrated... )

Home has its uses, no doubt about it, but when it comes to doing work I often find that home is actually too comfortable. I have difficulty getting into work mode at home because home is, well, the place I go when I want to get away from work! I just don't have the discipline to keep to my desk when the TV, the kitchen and the bed are but a few feet away. It is true that cafés can be distracting (one thing I can't stand is sitting next to someone who's chatting on the phone... when my cell phone rings, I try to give the café the courtesy of stepping outside to answer it), but I've been doing it for long enough that I can usually tune out everything out... it all becomes white noise.

Besides, people-watching makes a great study break, especially at cafés with cozy outdoor terraces and such.

ahhh...I can identify with that soz.

peripheral movement gets me too. If there's a plastic bag slightly moving from a ceiling fan or breeze, I have to go secure it.

Oh, and that bouncing leg thing. AARRGGHHH!

I was sitting next to a co-worker in a meeting, and he's click click clicking his pen. I put my hand over his, and he says "sorry" (we're good friends too), within a minute....click click click...

Off the subject, but glad there's a few of us with sound/sight issues.

Oh, yeah, put me on some caffine, and they'd bar me from the Java Hut.

HE....WON'T STOP....TAPPING....HIS....FOOT!!!!

That's me to a T. Same age, I think. I must have been about 10 or 11 when I became hyper sound-sensitive. Chewing, paper and plastic bags... People sounds. Still drive me up the frikkiin wall. Funny that I am not bothered by a chewing dog or a horse...only people.

Later I read a lot about it. It can be related to trauma (I did fall down a flight of stairs when I was 2) or (more plausible) middle ear infections (which I had a long slew of at the same age and then on and off). It's called sensory defensiveness, which can be connected to any senses (well, audio-visual most often). I have both, audio more pronounced perhaps.