Got Advice? - Small Business Owners Please!

You can't get a decent free estimate round here.

Gotta pay, or the only quotes you'll get are from people you don't want doing the work.

The winning contractor will generally apply the cost of the quote to the total.

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Oh Canada!

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I buy RYOBI tools because sooner or later they will get lost are stolen and it won't be the end of the world I just buy more.

also GO TO HARBOUR FREIGHT!!!!!

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I have had a Ryobi drill...big one, 1/2 inch...for over 20 years now...still a powerhouse.

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Wow amigo and 2packs, I feel like one of the guys!

Someone who worked for us for a while asked to borrow a generator, then the bastid went and pawned it.

My husband found him and used some gentle persuation to get him back to the pawn shop and get it back.

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All my advice and experience is hands on and operational. I don't know if my attitude is good to apply any where else

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2PacksAday wrote:

I have had a Ryobi drill...big one, 1/2 inch...for over 20 years now...still a powerhouse.

HI CHAI! Grab a cold one and pull up a seat. Lets talk shop. Very Happy

He pawned your generater?!? Laughing

Your husband sounds mean.

Whats the difference between a hole drilled with a RYOBI and a hole drilled with a RIGID?..........about 200 hundred bucks. Laughing

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Similar story, I actually lost a job a few months ago to a pawning incident. I subcontract for a larger company, and I normally do all their ceramic work, not exclusively, but I get the bulk of the work. Every so often when I'm busy they will fill in with a few other guys, one of them had borrowed a jack hammer...1200.00 hammer....and had pawned it. The hammer was gone and the guy had no money, so they tricked him into doing the job which was worth about the same amount as the hammer, and then didn't pay him.

I'm glad they got their money back, but that's lost money for me.

Personally, I've only been stiffed once in 18 years, and it was a very small amount, around 80.00.

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I've only been stiffed as a landarch once, for the end of a billing. She was both out of her mind and an attorney. We let the - yes, about $100. - go.
That primed me re attorneys, but not all of them are vile devils.

On estimates, an associate's son got his general contracting license a few years ago now. He's a very careful craftsman. His mom is a landscape contractor. He would labor over the estimates. She let him labor over them for a while as it is a painful but useful way to learn. Then they'd go over it together. By now he has more of a grip on the estimating, all of the things you need to think about. Still, estimating and writing it up digs into time. The whole site visit, presentation, estimation, contract proposal pull-together takes time, blown to bits if some fool with a lower bid for potentially less thought-out work gets the job. One reason some of us on the design end like to see a set of plans with details and specs get bid is so that apples and key limes aren't floating around on different bids.

In a larger firm, I've done projects with something like 40 pages, or more, of landscape/construction plans (I run screaming in my memory). But more recently I've been happy doing concept plans with details as needed. My business partner and I would do a site visit and do the estimate driving back in the car... for the design, not the installation. Then we'd make a phone call and tell the client the number, and given the go ahead on the number, write up the contract and mail it out within a day. Usually it was a go. But, my point is - at the time of the original phone call, we'd explain that we charged $75. to go out in the first place (more if it was, say, two hours drive away). If they hired us, we lopped off that portion of the bill. If they didn't, we mailed them a bill and usually got the payment - in fact I can't remember not getting it.

Thing is, one tosses out ideas galore during site visits - at least when design is involved. Then there's the drive and the time. Even if they don't hire you, your ideas might show up in the eventual job (another whole subject*)

For repeat clients, no initial site visit fee.

Tico might have comments for this thread too...

*The wonderful designer I worked with starting out was hired to do a garden design for someone famous or rich whom I now entirely forget. He did the concept plan, quite a dramatic thing involving different ponds and terraces and a pool, all working as a natural fall of water... some elements of which I do forget but were particular to his strong design. The client paid for the concept.

Two years later he saw the land design credited in Home Magazine, or whatever it was named at the time, at the LA Times, to an architect who did some work on the house.. article raving about the architect's wisdom about the land. Virtually the same design. But, my boss is a gentle soul, or maybe a tired one, and was busy enough, and let it go.

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Amigo wrote:

Fishin, I have the same exact buisiness that you speak of. We can help each other. The lady that thinks the 40 hour job will take 4 hour....this is what you do; tell her you forgot something in your car, get in and take off. Thats what I do and I'm not kidding. The costomer is happy to bankrupt you if it means they can save money. I telling you this is trouble. You don't beleive me? Then take the job. Everything will be too expensive. She will suspect you of everything. She'll question what matierials you use. Look at her bathroom! does it reflect a reasonable person? For a honest hard working man their is another costomer around the corner that wants it done right and knows what it's worth. While your running your buiseness down with this lady your compition is out picking up YOUR jobs.

I'm putting in an Art Gallery right now (walls, framing, drywall, ducting, concrete repair. I'm looking forward to interacting with you. My advice and opinions are straight farward and I am looking for the same.

What kind of power tools do you use?

What kind of overhead do you have?

Whats your cellphone bill look like?

What's your company vehicle?

Have you been ripped of yet?

Where do you buy your materials?

Wow, wow, wow! Ok, first off, thank you everyone for your ideas and responses! At the moment my head is spinning a little - I gave the bathroom lady a realstic estimate and left it at that. I haven't heard back yet but it's only been a day. If she does decide to go with it I can't fit her in until Feburary right now anyway.

For Amigo, I'm using whatever tools of my own I have. I've been doing my own work for years and have a pretty extensive collection. I expect some of those will die in short order so there will be replacements to come. Right nbow I'm setting aside ~10% of my profit from each job for tools, bits, blades, etc... I have to buy a hammerdrill for the current job I'm working. I'm basiclly buying my own tools from myself up front. I'll convert things like my generator and air compressor to business assets for starters.

I have my overhead is minimal and I have no employees. The business is run out of my residence so I can use the Home/Office thing with the IRS and I'm using my own 1/2-ton pickup so I'm tracking everything with that as business expenses. If I grow big enough I'll look at getting an actual office somewhere and working out of that and a company vehicle. One thing I'm really learning is SAVE EVERY RECEIPT! Laughing

I converted my personal cell over to business and I get 2500 minutes/month for $60. So far that's working for me.

I've been buying most of my materials at a local discount lumber yard (think of it as a "Home Depot Outlet" store). As soon as I get my paperwork back from the state with my license number I can get the contractor pricing which should cut off another 10% on materials. I have a signed contract for some work to do in December and the customer picked out ghe lights she wanted. I found the exact same lights on E-Bay and bought them there for almost noithing - $200 light fixtures for $35/each. I'm scrounging for the cheapest prices I can find but I don't think I can count on E-bay as a reliable source. I don't have time to watch all of the auctions.

For some of the other comments: I have a standard contract that is required by the State of MA. Not to complicated or legalistic and picked directly from the State's WWW site just so that I am sure it meets minumum state requirements. Business cards have been ordered and should be in the mail.

Right now the business is just me - no employees - and I'd prefer to keep it that way. I have a reliable plumber and a carpenter I can call on if I need assistance. I'm trying to find an electrician to setup up an arrangement with too.

I have to go arrange for a concrete delivery Monday morning so I can get some footings in on job #1 and I have to go do a survey on a project to replace all the windows in a house so I can work up an estimate on that one over the weekend. Lots of tape measure work to be done today. This stuff isn't leaving me much personal time to play! Razz

That reminds me, I need to pick up a small business accounting software package while I'm out...

I'll be back.... Thanks to all of you again! Cool

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BM

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LOL re estimates & clueless clients. Count Mrs Timber as perennially among the clueless class in that regard; I do, or at least direct mosta the maintenance, repair and remodeling work that gets done around here - which, since this house is 100+ years old is sorta an ongoing, permanent project with no clear endpoint in sight. She'll come up with an idea, I'll try to explain to her what else is going to be involved, she'll disagree it could be that much work/expense, and she always gets mad at me when it turns out I was right.

Some years back, she decided she wanted the main entrance door replaced - she'd found a nice, upmarket entrance door assembly at a yardsale for a couple hundred bucks, still "in the box", a real bargain at around a quarter of its normal retail. She also decided since the door was gonna be replaced, she'd like the the entrance porch "made a little bigger". Now, this new door was larger, by several inches in all dimensions, than the one it was to replace, and of course the wall was a bearing wall, then there would be some minor landscaping work to accommodate enlarging the porch, including dropping a couple trees.

"No problem", I told her, "that corner of the house could stand some long-needed repair anyhow, and I've wanted to re-route the gas and electric lines since we bought the place. Prolly take 4 or 5 days to get it done, I'll need a couple helpers for a few hours, hafta rent a backhoe for an afternoon - figure somewhere around 5 grand all done ... barring surprises."

She didn't see it that way, figured it'd only be a few hundred bucks, take less than a day. Long story short; there were surprises; wound up having to do some work on the house's foundation, hadda replace a couple hundred square feet of interior flooring, which necessitated rehanging the basement stairs, which meant some interior heating, plumbing and electrical work - came out to around 5 grand, took a week, and I paid a couple guys about 20 hours each. Nice door, though, and the porch is bigger.

Then there was the time she decided she wanted to add a whirlpool bathtub/shower enclosure to the 2nd floor "half-bath", which was a really small room that was essentially a dormer. I told her "No problem ... lift one side of the dormer roof, throw up a wall, run the plumbing, add another electric circuit, reinforce the floor, relocate the window, mebbe move the doorway to the right a few inches ... prolly run something like 8 or 9 grand, barring surprises." Long story short again; of course there were the typical "old house surprises", and the $400 tub/shower enclosure she had set her mind on is in a $16,000 room addition. The occasional overnight guest appreciates the convenience, though.

_Oh - and that ½-ton pickup ... getchyerself a trailer; you'll find it still incredibly useful even after you've figured out you need a beefier truck.

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timberlandko wrote:

She didn't see it that way, figured it'd only be a few hundred bucks, take less than a day. Long story short; there were surprises; wound up having to do some work on the house's foundation, hadda replace a couple hundred square feet of interior flooring, which necessitated rehanging the basement stairs, which meant some interior heating, plumbing and electrical work - came out to around 5 grand, took a week, and I paid a couple guys about 20 hours each. Nice door, though, and the porch is bigger.

Then there was the time she decided she wanted to add a whirlpool bathtub/shower enclosure to the 2nd floor "half-bath", which was a really small room that was essentially a dormer. I told her "No problem ... lift one side of the dormer roof, throw up a wall, run the plumbing, add another electric circuit, reinforce the floor, relocate the window, mebbe move the doorway to the right a few inches ... prolly run something like 8 or 9 grand, barring surprises." Long story short again; of course there were the typical "old house surprises", and the $400 tub/shower enclosure she had set her mind on is in a $16,000 room addition. The occasional overnight guest appreciates the convenience, though.

_Oh - and that ½-ton pickup ... getchyerself a trailer; you'll find it still incredibly useful even after you've figured out you need a beefier truck.

Wow.

Trailer good. Driving back and forth bad.

Fishin, After reading your post I see you are farther along then me and I could probably use some advice from you.

You can get some real good tools at garage sales. It pays off, I swear.

Don't buy stolen tools it puts a curse on your business. (you don't sound like the type that would, I sure don't curse or not)

****Question for everone ****

How much would you charge off the top of you head to tear out 14 ft of exterior wall (1 1/2 stucco, wire, plywood)frame it back in (with 8x10x14 header) and put in a 20 ft interior wall framed, drywalled mud and paint?

Don't put any time into this. just off the top of your head.

Labour only.

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When detailing estimates........set an acceptance deadline.

ie quote valid until (so and so date).

Phone non accepting customers and ask if they could tell you why your quote was not accepted. Nothing to lose everthing to gain.

Do before and after photos (where applicable) and send them as a reminder card 6 weeks after the job is finished. On the card write "glad we could help call us again soon" or ask for more work.
Follow up. Put this in your quote and charge for it. Call back 1 week after the job finishes just to check that all is ok.
Existing clients are value for money new clients cost a lot to find.

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Re: Got Advice? - Small Business Owners Please!

fishin wrote:

I have recently embarked on launching my own small business - a small Home Improvement/Handyman Business.

Where I'm at: To get into this business in MA I need a Home Improvement Contractor (HCI) license issued by the State - not a problem. To get that I needed to obtain a Business Certificate from my local town. I just spent the last few hours working that and getting the local Zoning Officials to approve it (I'll be running the business out of my residence instead of commercial/industrial zoned lot so Zoning had to get involved).

I have the skills and tools to do the work. Any work that is beyond me or requires building permits or special licenses (i.e. plumber, electrician, etc..) I won't do.

I have work lined up. I have one landlord that owns 4 properties that wants me to do work - they have 4 projects that I could start on tomorrow. I have 2 other landlords that own multiple properties that have also expressed interest and, I talked to a plumber today who is willing to pass me work if I pass him my plumbing jobs that require a licensed plumber. At this point, finding business doesn't seem to be an issue (hopefully it will stay that way!)

So I'm "getting legal" and I have work to do. Now what? What are the pitfalls? What should I be watching out for? Tax/Accounting software is on order to keep track of teh financials. What sort of insurance would someone like this get (Business Liability? Errors & Ommissions?) to protect both myself and the business? Who else should I be "networking" with?

The only issue I've run into so far is setting expectations with potential customers. For example; I'm preparing an estimate for a woman that decided to rehab a bathroom on her own and messed it up pretty badly. The sheetrock is put up wrong and will need to be removed and replaced. She didn't bolt the toilet back to the floor, the sink is just barely hanging oin the wall, didn't put proper subflooring down, etc.. At the moment it doesn't look bad but it will in a year if I just "fix" what she's done. She seems to think that this is a 4-6 hour job but I'm calculating somewhere in the range of 35-36 hours. Plus I'll have to buy materials to fix what isn't done right. How do i tell her that the job she thinks should cost her $200 is really a $2,500 job without her hanging up on me? (I did point these things out when I was there but she wants to gloss over them.) Is this one of those things where you just take a pass and decide not to even take the job?

Anyway, I'd like to here from the small business owners out there. Any advice is appreciated. I'm flyin' solo here!

The first thing you have to understand about landlords is that they sound like a bird..."Cheep, cheep, cheep". You get the point.

If you're dealing with a low-rent mentality with a miser whose only concern is doing something for the cheapest possible price, even when major mistakes are pointed out to her, my advice, once you have been rejected after pointing out the problems, is to bail and move on to the next project.

Regarding insurance, I think at this stage, it is only necessary for you to obtain contractors liability. Be sure that "completed operations" is included. Many insurance companies offer programs for artisan contractors. Regarding professional liability, this is probably overkill, since you are not drawing plans, designs or otherwise setting specifications for which others would depend on your plans, like when people are following an architect's blueprints for example. You're still in the "hands on stage". Keep it simple. The thing about liability insurance is that you are charged, based on your estimated revenue. Try to shoot for a realistic estimate, because if you estimate too low, you have to pay a balloon payment in the audit. You want to avoid that if at all possible.

Also, be extremely mindful if you sign any contracts that require that you hold the project owner harmless. That means you are responsible if anyone gets hurt while you are working on the job or if property is damaged. Make sure you have the owner named as an additional insured, and get a certificate from your agent if you encounter such a situation. Also, some states require that you carry workers compensation if you hire a helper. Be forewarned in advance that if your helper becomes injured while on the job, you could be held responsible. Have I scared you out of business yet? That's not my intention, only to get you to look at all angles.

Sorry to belabor that point so much, but I'd honestly look at some of my brighter prospects if I had a difficult situation like you have described with this lady. You don't want to be anywhere near this woman when all of the cheesy installations start failing. You'll likely be the one blamed and the one who could be left holding the bag if they do.

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