Whats the beef?

Hi Kev

It doesn't really mean "what's your argument with me" ?

It's more like "what's your problem"?

or as a verb, it means "to complain"

as in "I'm going to go beef to management about this lousy product."

I googled it a little, and I didn't immediately come up with the origin, except that it started in the 1920's

I'm guess maybe it's alluding that your "beef" may be tough, hence it's a problem.

Anyone else?

With those scissors in your hands, who's going to disagree with you?

Yes, and you know what?

I run around with those scissors in my hands all day long and no one can make me stop it!

Especially with that maniacal look on your face.

This can be mixed up with another sentence, "where's the beef"?

Hard to remember now, but I see it as an expression of wonderment about how little the beef pattie is in a given presentation... as in, does your described explanation have any merit?

osso! that has sexual overtones

We wouldn't say "Where's the Beef" about the problem, we'd say "What's the Beef" or "What's YOUR beef?", right?

Either way, I miss that ugly old lady

Well, that too!

Not that I've ever had to say it, of course!!!

Still, it's from a famous ad campaign, Wendy's, 1984 - I just looked it up on adage.

Yea, she's the ugly old lady I mentioned missing

Too funny.


Big, huge bun, little weeny burger (size of a quarter) - lol 'WHERE'S THE BEEF' - all disgusted and outraged...

Beef is, of course, the flesh of an ox, bull or cow, and is probably the most popular meat item on the American menu. The English word "beef" comes directly from the Old French "boef" (modern French "boeuf"), which came in turn from the Latin "bovem," meaning "ox" or "cow." The root of that Latin "bovem" was "bos," by the way, which is also related to modern English "cow."

For much of human history, beef has been considered a healthy food and a source of strength, and the use of "beef" in slang for at least the last few hundred years reflects that opinion. A man who is large and muscular has been described as "beefy" since the 18th century, and to "beef up" has meant "to strengthen or increase" at least since the mid-20th century.
And now for a bit of bad news: no one is entirely certain of how "beef" became slang for "an argument" or "a complaint," a usage which first appeared in the U.S. during the late 1800s. It is entirely possible, however, and perhaps even likely, that "beef" in this sense is simply a sort of shorthand to describe a situation or complaint that might well escalate into a "beefy" muscular conflict.

As for "bone to pick," meaning a subject of argument, there is no connection with "beef." "Bone to pick," which dates back to the 16th century, simply refers to a dog chewing endlessly on, and "picking clean," a large bone. A "bone to pick" is thus a subject or issue that is expected to require considerable discussion or argument. A similar phrase, "bone of contention," meaning an issue over which two people argue, also dates back to the 1500s and refers, appropriately, to two dogs fighting over an especially choice bone.


Osso has already alluded to the fact:

In the 1980s, Wendy's fast food chain launched a series of ads starring an elderly woman named Clara Peller. She would examine a huge hamburger bun with a tiny meat patty inside, exclaiming disgustedly, "Where's the beef?"

By the way, the "Where's the beef?" campaign was created to promote the fact that Wendy's, which was a fairly new chain at the time, had bigger hamburgers than its competitors.

Because the ads were so popular, the phrase started to be used more generally to question the value or substance of things. In a quick survey of recent newspaper stories that used the phrase, it was most often employed to point out a lack of evidence to support a business proposal or court case.

As one example, according to the Biloxi Sun Herald, after the government made a weak case against a judge in a Mississippi bribery trial last month, defense attorney Michael Crosby said of the jury, "They looked shocked when the government rested. The look I saw in their eyes was, 'Where's the beef?'"


The Brits however believe this phrase allegedly comes from the London criminal underworld, well known to be full of cockney rhyming slang. The traditional shout of "stop thief!" was mocked by being replaced by "hot beef, hot beef" in criminal circles who thought that the shouters of "stop thief" were making an unnecessary fuss. The 1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue defines Beef as: "to cry beef; to give the alarm".


Make mine a triple Mac.

It did where I'm from.









(Please poing those scissors somewhere else, wouldja?)

interesting tryagain...

but someone's GOT to get to the bottom of this mystery!

In that case, we would say, What's your beef? not WHERE'S THE beef, n'est-ce pas?

And I, er, no sexual neophyte - I was 42 in 1984 - didn't spend my day thinking 'Where's the beef' meant something about dicks. I suppose I was in some subgroup of some underculture in West LA. Maybe I didn't know the right people. I thought it was an advert ploy, specially since I come from an advert family.

I'll admit an allusion in the text. Yawn.

This was never of prime... interest.



Mame, I guess I don't understand that you would avoid saying this.. not to put you on the spot.

No, I'd say that, too, about (but not TO) a guy if warranted, that is

Just saying that in the USUAL context, it's Where's the Beef? from the commercial (which is where you and I are going with this!) and What's YOUR beef? when saying What's your problem.


Do you agree?

beef
c.1300, from O.Fr. boef, from L. bos (gen. bovis, acc. bovem) "ox, cow." Original plural was beeves. The verb meaning "to complain" is slang first recorded 1888. Beefy "brawny" is from 1743. Beefeater "warder of the Tower of London" (1671) is a contemptuous reference to well-fed servants of the royal household; the notion is of "eating another's beef" (cf. O.E. hlaf-æta "servant," lit. "loaf-eater"). To beef up "add strength" is from 1890.

[Reyn pulls out calculator and rolls eyes]

http://www.word-detective.com/052301.html