Goth or Emo?

You write like a 15 year old, surely you must know the contemporary term of Goth and Emo. I also assume you are young because I find it hard to believe an older person would think the Goths were still pillaging in the 18th century.
(FYI various Goths lived and fought at the same time as the ancient Greeks and Romans and into the early middle ages.)

ok well im 18 and i didn't pay attention in history so yes i have nothing to say to your criticism - well im sorry but i dont quite know the difference so pardon my stupidity

GW is correct about the historical Goths. The Swedes long referred to themselves as Goths, and the people history knows generally as Goths came out of Scandanavia between 3000 and 2500 years ago. They travelled up the valleys between the Elbe and Oder rivers (which meant they were travelling south), and the pressure from their migrations drove other Germanic tribes to the east, leading the clashes with the Romans, and Caesar's invasion of Gaul (France). The pressure was too much for the Goths, who moved east, first to what is now the Ukraine, and eventually toward central Asia in the region north of the Caucasus and north and east of the Caspian sea. They apparently learned the use of the horse for warfare from the Turkic speaking peoples there (i have read, but can't vouch for it, that Turkic words entered the Germanic vocabulary of the Goths). There, they divided into two general bodies--the Visigoths (western Goths) and the Ostrogoths (eastern Goths).

When the people who would one day be known as the Huns (ethnic cousins of the Mongols) began to move west about 2000 years ago, the pressure on the Goths was great enough that they moved west in front of the Hunnic migration, and ran into the eastern borders of the Roman Empire in Europe. At first, they attacked, but later, defeated and desparate, they asked the Romans to admit them to the Empire. This was accomplished in the normal manner for the times, and they were given land on condition of providing soldiers for the Empire. They had adopted the horse while in central Asia, but not the bow, and they continued to use the spear, common among Germanic tribes. In Gaul, the Germanic tribes used a short spear with a long blade, from which the long sword eventually derived. But the Goths used a spear with a long haft and a short blade, and the heavy cavalry with a long lance (as in "knights in shining armor") derive from the Gothic cavalry. In 410 CE, Goths under the command of Alaric sacked the city of Rome. Many Goths migrated to north Africa with the Vandals (mostly the Visigoths). Others ended up in Spain with the Vandals, along with many Ostrogoths.

The Goths eventually vanished (although not the ones in Sweden--they still referred to themselves as Goths as late as the 14th century), because they were absorbed into other nations--but not before they gave their name to the period (roughly 500 to 800 CE) after the collapse of Roman authority in western Europe. Therefore, Gothic refers to a style of architecture, styles of art, and generally to the social customs of Europe in what was once called the "Dark Ages."

Therefore, in the English language, Gothic became associated with all that which is dark and brooding, and the term became common again in the 1800s, when romance novels such as Wuthering Heights were referred to as "Gothic," and the art of the Pre-Raphaelites was also often referred to as "Gothic." By that time, though, there was no actual influence of the Goths on modern English art and literature, it was simply a "romantic notion."

Therefore, beginning in the early 1980s, young people who went in for silliness such as "death rock," "satanic rock," dressing all in black, using black lipstick and fingernail polish, and tatoos and peircings were called, or called themselves "Goths." That name no longer has any reference to the actual, historical Goths, and only vaguely refers to the artistic paradigms of mid-19th century England.

Goths and Emos are two entirely different animals. Anybody who claims to be a Goth and an Emo is making **** up. Emos are so called because of their "emotional" character--they don't dress, talk or act like Goths at all. If you want to think Emo, think of whiner rock, like Staind.

thanks for the info, thats all i wanted

Don't get huffy, no one took a bite out of you. You came here for information, and that is what we do. Since we don't know what you know, we're likely to tell you far more than you ever wanted to hear.

i wasnt huffy just a bit taken back. thanks for the concern though

S'OK, no harm done . . .

Am i correct in assuming that you learned far more about Goths than you ever wanted to know?

Sillhouette, I still find it hard to believe that at the age of 18 the Goth and Emo lifestyles are alien to you. If you want to start a discussion on the topic that is fine, just don't pretend ignorance. If you are truly unaware of the differences in these fashion identities, maybe this will help:

The Modern Goth Movement

History of Emo

and just for good measure:
History of the Ancient Goths
You will have to choose Ostrogoths or Visigoths for details.

Wow! Setanta is faster than my ability to Google.

some things in life are hard to belive. when i first heard that a plane crashed into the first world trade center building, i didnt belive it.

well it sure was a history lesson, thanks now i'm less "ignant"

This is an image of a Gothic warrior from about 2000 years ago. Note the long spear. Put this boy on horseback, and you've got the makings of a mounted knight.



These are two 1980s Goths who played dress up as Goths for a party in 2004. It is amazing how persistent the "Goth" style has been for more than 20 years--such fads among teenagers and young college people usually change quickly. There seems to be a strong appeal in the "Goth" style, which continues long after the earliest 1980s Goths became Moms and Dads.



As you should be able to see, Emos and Goths have absolutely nothing in common, other than a lack of taste in music.

well i knew a rough difference but now im pretty sure what the two are.

The "Goth Scene" is alive and well.

Click here for "Goth-dot-net."

now i'm fully educated in the subject. i hope you pardon me, i have to work on a form thats due tomorow

I hate to inform those to the contrary here..but the term Goth here as a young social movement is connected more to the Gothic rather than to Goths of hundreds or a thousand years ago. Goths are philosphically akin to nihilists (more like the beat generation...as in beatnik of 50s)

I hate to inform you Ragman, but i've pointed out all along that the Gothic movement of the 19th century, and its ugly stepchild of the 20th century have absolutely no resemblance to the historic Goths, and no reference to them.

You might try reading the posts before you comment on them.

somehow..you missed that I said the same thing .. and there was no 'tude attacted to mine.

What harm is there in my reinforcing the info? Soemtimes too we miss an occasional posting. lighten up.

"contemporary subculture prevalent in many countries. It began in the United Kingdom during the late 1970s to early 1980s in the gothic rock scene, an offshoot of the post-punk genre. The goth subculture has survived much longer than others of the same era. Its imagery and cultural proclivities indicate influences from nineteenth century Gothic literature, mainly through horror movies."

Actually, Ragman, you began your post with this:



Now just whom were you informing to the contrary if not Greenwitch or myself, the only two people to have responded to Silhouette's question?