Benefits of the action against Iraq.

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The a2k has been inundated with posts condemning the Bush administrations war against Iraq as unjustified. However, do you think as a result of this action the chance for peace in the middle east has been enhanced. In addition what other hot spots may be cooled down as a result of said action? In other words what benefits if any will be realized as a result of the action in Iraq.

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Well, there's . . . uh . . . uh . . . no, not that one . . . but hey, there's . . . well, not quite . . .

Geeze, i'm drawin' a blank . . .

(Don't take it badly, Boss, i've always been a bad man.)

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I personally do not think the chances for mideast peace have increased due to the war.

I think they have increased due to the renewed interest in the process.

If you think that the mideast peace process was helped by the war please explain how.

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Craven
With Saddam gone and the nations that support terrorism in the area, {financial and militarily] reluctant to do so one of the major impediments to the peace process may if not eliminated be curtailed. Reluctant because they fear US power and Bush.

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Re: Benefits of the action against Iraq.

au1929 wrote:

In other words what benefits if any will be realized as a result of the action in Iraq.

1) Saddam Hussein is now out of the picture. That is a benefit no matter what. Was it worth the cost? I don't think so, but if Iraqis end up establishing a democratic government in his place -- I may change my mind on that. Gotta wait for some time to pass and see what happens.

2) Oil will be cheaper for a while. This is probably a benefit -- although....ehhh....

3) The Republicans will get more Jewish votes because of the war. This certainly is a benefit to the Republicans.

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When I have time to consider the question at length, I think I can come up with a few more. Off the top of my head, I think these items have resulted from the Iraq War:

1) NK is rather docile these days. They are not rattling their nuclear sword, and agreeing to multi-lateral talks rather than their former unilateral command to the US.

2) Syria is expelling terrorists and former Iraqi leaders.

3) Expelling Saddam has given Bush the moral authority to 'force' more concessions from Sharon, IMO--and this gives him the moral authority to lean on the Pals.

4) Though all isn't butterflies and flowers in Iraq-- The people are free, out of torture chambers, and in a position to self-govern.

5) Iraq is no longer a free and open training ground for terrorists.

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au1929 wrote:

Craven
With Saddam gone and the nations that support terrorism in the area, {financial and militarily] reluctant to do so one of the major impediments to the peace process may if not eliminated be curtailed. Reluctant because they fear US power and Bush.

Ok, just wanted to make sure you were talking about the psycobabble that has been circulating since before the war ("we need to put the fear of Ameruca into them!") and not any tangible connection.

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Sofia wrote:

1) NK is rather docile these days. They are not rattling their nuclear sword, and agreeing to multi-lateral talks rather than their former unilateral command to the US.

NK has no problem with multi-lateral talks and did not have a problem with this before the war. Their insistence on one-on-one talks with the US were due to their recognition of the fact that we determine their fate, regardless of what China, Japan and South Korea feel (our NK policy has irritated all 4 countries).

Sofia wrote:

2) Syria is expelling terrorists and former Iraqi leaders.

Syria has been cooperating to some extent with the "war on terror" since long before the war in Iraq. But yes, since the war in Iraq things have changed. Before the war they did not extradite Iraqis feeling from Iraq. :-)

Sofia wrote:

3) Expelling Saddam has given Bush the moral authority to 'force' more concessions from Sharon, IMO--and this gives him the moral authority to lean on the Pals.

Hmm. I would have exchanged "authority" with "motivation". I believe the US is under greater pressure to focus on the mideast.

Sofia wrote:

4) Though all isn't butterflies and flowers in Iraq-- The people are free, out of torture chambers, and in a position to self-govern.

I agree with all but the last.

Sofia wrote:

5) Iraq is no longer a free and open training ground for terrorists.

I disagree that it was a "free and open" training ground in the first place. Sure terrorists have trained there as have they in the US and just about everywhere.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Ok, just wanted to make sure you were talking about the psycobabble that has been circulating since before the war ("we need to put the fear of Ameruca into them!") and not any tangible connection.

Actually, it probably is more likely that countries like North Korea and Iran are less afraid of us now than before.

I think they might think that Bush could never get away with doing another of these liberation things -- and be enboldened by that thought.

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I remember news rports before the war, wherein NK demanded unilaterla talks with the US, and refused to talk to China and others about their nuclear proliferation.

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I don't think a conclusion that the war frightened the North Koreans can necessarily be drawn, rather, i would say it gave China pause, because they reversed themselves and began to put pressure on North Korea. If any effect can be said to have taken, it would have to have been on China, not wishing to see hostilities flare up within their sphere of influence, and no longer entirely certain that Bush isn't crazy enough to try . . .

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April 14, 2003
Iraq War Mellowing N. Korea's Stance: Seoul
President Roh Moo Hyun's top national security adviser said Monday the Iraq war seems to have softened North Korea's stance against multilateral dialogue over its nuclear ambitions, Yonhap News Agency said.
''North Korea has become somewhat flexible in its attitude toward dialogue'' to settle the nuclear dispute, Ra Jong Yil told reporters after a meeting of senior presidential secretaries, according to Yonhap.
Ra said the Iraq war has caused the North to find itself ''in a disadvantageous position internationally.''

He said neighboring countries such as China and Russia may have encouraged North Korea to be ready to join a multilateral forum to settle the nuclear issue.

(Kyodo News)
Here is a supporting opinion.

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The North Koreans are pretty damned block headed--i would be amused to know exactly what "encouragement" means in this context . . .

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encouragement=skeered Evil or Very Mad

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Setanta

Quote:

and no longer entirely certain that Bush isn't crazy enough to try .

. .

Your words make my point.

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Frank

Quote:

Actually, it probably is more likely that countries like North Korea and Iran are less afraid of us now than before.

I think they might think that Bush could never get away with doing another of these liberation things -- and be enboldened by that thought.

You argue against all logic.

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au1929 wrote:

You argue against all logic.

Not at all, au.

Don't you think Bush would have a lot harder time starting another war over nothing than he did the last time?

I certainly think so.

My guess is that the powers that be in North Korean and Iran think that also.

Don't want to make a huge thing about this (I couild easily argue the other side) -- but I offer it as an ironic consideration of the consequences of having gone to war against Iraq -- and being unable, so far, to show the WMD's that supposedly were the reason for the war.

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I remember how unhappy most ALL of us were at Rummy, Bush AND Powell's rather rough pronouncements about Syria, Iran AND NK during and immediately after the war.

There were some of us who thought a military action toward any of those countries was possible. Imagine how much more one of the named countries may have bought into the rhetoric.

I think it was a calculated bluff (or serious threat) that paid appreciable dividends.

Understand Frank's reasoning, but disagree. (All is normal here.) :wink:

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Sofia
If I find myself agreeing with friend Frank I will know it is time to have myself committed. I am sure he will be happy to sign the commitment papers. Laughing

Frank
keep up the good work Twisted Evil

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Dang.
Lost another one.

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Benefits of the action against Iraq.

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