World GNP ranking: a game

GNP importance
Something important I would like you to think about is that GNP per capita doesn't reflect the "importance" of a given nation. I know this is very arbitrary, but I bet most people would agree that France or Germany are way more important than Luxembourg. What are your picks for a given region of the world? Mines are as follows...

Europe: Germany, France and England
Asia: China, Japan and India
Africa: South Africa
Middle East: Israel and Egypt
Latin America: Mexico, Brazil and Argentina
North America: USA and Canada

GNP reflects wealth of average people of a country
Countries like Germany, China, Japan, US , etc maye have important roles in global economy. But, the GNP is a sign of the average income of per capita of a given country. The big countries above might have high GDP but it's a fact that GNP shows that big countries don't equal to high average income.

rrodney, Welcome to a2k. You are correct: GNP is misleading, because it doesn't really reflect the standard of living compared to other countries. China's GNP may be large compared to the US, Japan, and Germany, but most people in China doesn't come close to the same living standards.

i believe the original question was to rank the countries by the purchasing power parity, no? then again, it's a question from 2003. PPP however does represent the spending capability of citizens and is way more representative than GNP per capita.

PPP also affects different regions in a country.

true, true. but you gotta be able to compare countries somehow.

I think one of the best ways to compare countries is to look at the overall standard of living of each country. Some values will be subjective, because what may be important in one country may not be in another.

I have seen articles that claims the poorest in the US live better than many middle class in other countries.

I believe the problem with the US in today's world are many: 1) growing federal and consumer debt, 2) decline in our educational system, and 3) our government's inability to handle future problems in social security and medicare.

hmmm, and if you throw in how people perceive their standard of living, you may get a different story altogether. lower class in the u.s. may have a higher standard of living, but feel way more miserable and deprived, than middle class people elsewhere.... or even than lower class folks elsewhere in the states.... hard to judge one way or another...

That's for sure; I doubt poor people in any country worry about poor people in other countries. I doubt they even understand "standard of living."

On my visit to Tanzania and Kenya many years ago, we had the opportunity to visit some Masaii villages. They live in small mud huts, and they seemed relatively happy people. Their lifestyle has not changed for hundreds if not thousands of years.

That's a very racist comment.

Show me how it's racist.

It's a quite old topic i know, but it's a complicated discussion that deserves a comment by an outsider, a brazilian guy. Although time has passed and the numbers have changed - mainly according to the so called BRIC group (Brazil, Russia, India and China) the core of the issue remains the same: the GNP grownth doesn't necessarily means a substantial change. New names were invented to ease the negative weight of the expression third world. Exception made to the countries that haven't change (foward, i mean) their social and economical stats, it's pretty common hearing the developing country designation. In some cases it makes sense. As an example i easily can remember of Chile. Differently of many of you guys wonder, this is a very nice country, and i can assure it's the most developed country within all Latin America, with very similar standards to my beloved (I have lived there for a while) New Zealand, a country which is considered a developed nation. Brazil is the richest in the region, no doubt, with a bigger GNP than Canada or Spain, for example. The problem here is the difference between regions, a very complex issue. As an illustration, I could explain my own status. I work at the equivalent of your FBI, a common agent, not a big deal, and i make about 6,000 usd per month. How can we measure this money in relative terms? Let's use the big mac factor, which means, here in Brazil, about 3 usd. Not too bad I suppose. Although, in some regions of Brazil the average income is ridiculously low. Shame on us... The national minimum income is around 200 usd. Too bad, too bad... The migration flows you recieve from Central America is similar to the one that occurs in richest spots in Brazil. Cities such as Rio, Sao Paulo and Brasilia (DC) absorb millions of brazilians from the Amazon North and Notheast region, resulting in huge cities: São Paulo, 20,000,000 dwellers and Rio, around 10,000,000. This situation has been working and still works like a bomb. Violence exploded in these big centers, as the gap between rich and poor have reached unbelievable patterns. We can see Mercedes Benz and Ferraris down the streets and, at same time, children begging for money under the red lights. We can also experience barely grown up boys carrying ak 47 and ar 15 rifles late at night (even at daylight!) on the streets and inside the fortresses of crime: the famous brazilian slums, well known as favelas, far away from government eyes and arms. These slums were formed by that people who fled from poverty in North and Northeast. In other hand, it's important to assure that all goodies and stuff are over exposed to consumption. Up to date eletronics, cars, fancy houses and whiteware, clothes and so. In the same way you guys have there in the US or Western Europe. As an end, I leave here a question. Is it worthy having a enormous increase in economical subjects if I don't spread the wealth? I don't think so, and I'm pretty convinced that the third world expression is kind of a benevolent way to indicate the ashaming incapacity of solve these problems.

Rafael BR, As you say, the topic you wish to continue is an old one, although with a somewhat different twist; Brazil vs New Zealand vs those countries like Russia, India, and China whose GDP growth has passed over those "developed" countries we know as the US, Japan, and Europe.

It's now a whole new ball game because of the world economic crisis that impacts everybody. This will of necessity slow down the gap between the CEOs salaries vs those working for the companies they head. The "share the pain" monopoly monies that many governments are now printing to bail out their banks, financial companies, and over-grown businesses will be the achilles heel that will extend the pain for a much longer period and much deeper than most are now suffering. Governments are the last ones who understands the macro and micro economics of their actions, and we've already seen how sloppy they were by giving money away with so many zeroes behind it that they have no idea the damage they have done to capitalism. That was "free" money without any conditions or strings attached; no accountability needed; just go out and spend that money.

After AIG spent $150,000 on a party after they received the first batch of $85 billion, the people were shocked at the abuse of taxpayer money. After a couple of months, our government has now committed some 7.2 trillion dollars in guarantees and monies to prop up our economy.

All with monopoly money, because there's nothing to back up those "printed" US currency.

They're not even backed by bonds.

Who would want to buy, when what bond holdings they already own are depreciating in value every day. Those bond certificates will be worth wall paper material in no time.

Not to worry; salaries and wages will drop to more competitive rates across the board, and CEO pay and benefits will be "controlled" by stock owners and our government. Those stock options are going to become slashed for most directors and officers of companies; the same free-wheeling and dealing will not tolerated.

When governments should be cutting cost by laying off workers, they're adding staff and expense - even while tax revenues continue to disappear.

It's gonna be a very long struggle for many on this planet.

And it's really scaring. The damages caused by over told permissive loan policies are going to be tough. The essence of capitalism has been raped by this lack of criteria. As a consequence, a violent chain reaction started to melt not only the Economy, but also the confidence, the belief on the system. And also government staff's brains. Perhaps that's why they're hiring...
The undeniable American power dictates the velocity of the effects worldwide. Now, the world is facing the second breach. The figure of a Tasmanian devil capitalism has turned into a curly blonde blue wetted eyed little girl staring papa, asking for money. Can we still believe? How long China and India - mainly - will prevent the complete chaos (at least they currently are the salvation board of Brazil)? They're still buying but until when?
PS - Hope my english is sufficiently understandable yet... Cheers!

china
gaza strip
Saudi Arabia
Norway
Australia
united states of America
united kingdom
Canada
spain
Czech republic
brazil
Germany
mexico
Ukraine
Colombia
Slovakia
Ireland
angola
Russia
Taiwan
cuba
turkey
Bermuda
india
Nigeria
north korea
siria
Afghanistan

I like the way you think.

I also believe GDP is a very poor indicator of how the majority of any country lives. Your population analysis is spot on!