I digress but I found this to be of interest.
. 26, 2003
Israeli Arabs, Jews arrive in Poland to trace Holocaust
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
WARSAW, Poland
A group of 300 Israeli Arabs and Jews toured the historic Jewish disctrict of Poland's southern city of Krakow Monday, beginning an unprecedented visit that aims to help Muslims understand what Jews suffered in the Holocaust.
The group of 150 Israeli Arab intellectuals, athletes and businessmen, joined by as many Jews, were to spend the coming two days touring and learning about the former Nazi death camp of Auschwitz.
The visit to the camp, which comes at a time of great polarization and bitterness created by 30 months of Mideast fighting, will be the largest by a group of Arabs, according to Jaroslaw Mensfelt, spokesman for the Auschwitz museum.
For many Jews, the trip is important because it demonstrates a willingness on the part of the Arabs to recognize what European Jews endured during World War II.
"Arabs have asked to learn about the Jewish suffering," Eleonora Lew, a Jewish participant on the trip, said in a telephone interview from her home in Tel Aviv before departing for Poland.
A delegation of about 200 Arabs and Jews from France are also to join the group.
The Holocaust has played a central role in shaping the identity of Israel, a nation at war with its Arab neighbors since it won statehood in 1948. For many Israelis, the slaughter of 6 million Jews during World War II is a constant reproach to the world for failing to make an effort to save them.
Between 1940-45, more than 1 million people, mostly Jews, were killed in gas chambers or died of disease, starvation and torture at Auschwitz, the largest of the Nazi death camps. About 500,000 people from around the world visit the camp each year.
Before World War II, Poland had a Jewish community of 3.5 million, or 10 percent of all citizens. Most died in the Holocaust and majority of the survivors fled—chiefly to Israel.
May. 26, 2003
Sharon to Likud: Occupation is terrible
By THE JERUSALEM POST INTERNET STAFF
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon delivered an impassioned defense of his support for the US-backed road map peace plan on Monday, calling the occupation of Palestinians in the territories "terrible" for Israel. In remarks to Likud Party members who assailed the cabinet decision made Sunday to back the plan, which supports the Palestinian bid for statehood, Sharon retorted: "There is nobody here to whom the homeland means more than it does to me." "I don't know if we shall succeed, but I shall make every effort to reach a political settlement, because I think that is important for Israel," Sharon said. He said there would be no let down in Israel's war on terror, and that if terror attacks continue to be launched against Israel, "the Palestinians won't get anything." But, Sharon said, "you may not like the word, but to maintain 3.5 million Palestinians under occupation, is terrible for Israel, the Palestinians and for the Israeli economy." Sharon maintained he has long supported the notion that the historic land of Israel would have to be divided for the sake of making peace. Israel cannot improve its economy by financial measures alone, Sharon said. "If there is security and quiet, along with the measures we are taking, there will be investment in Israel and growth." "Whoever thinks we have surrendered to terrorism, Israel has not, Israel fights terrorism day and night," Sharon said. He said that anyone accusing him of surrender is himself guilty of capitulation. Sharon spoke for about 20 minutes, ending a stormy session of the Likud Knesset faction, at which party hardliners accused the government of selling out to the Palestinians. The road map calls for Palestinians to achieve statehood by 2005, and for them to put an end to terror attacks against Israel. Lawmaker David Levy, a former foreign minister, said that for the same price Sharon was offering, "the Left could have made peace long ago. This is no compromise, we are giving up everything." Sharon said he would not be bringing the road map to the Knesset for a vote as it is a "direction", not an agreement
The ball is now in the Palestinians court. Let see what the do with it.
au,
It was a beautiful precedent. When Sharon bucks his party I marvel at his political metamorphosis.
He has long maintained that the partition was inevitable going so far as to argue that Palestine was a "fait accompli". Now he finally has this. I'm impressed and believe that it really had to be a man of Sharon's timber to wrangle this. It was close but I think a major advantage to Sharon is that few dare to level the accusation of treachery against him. He is, after all, called "the butcher" by Palestinians, he was the antithesis to the previous administrations who were dumped in farvor of a hardliner when Isreal felt slapped in the face by Palestinians who blow a great chance at peace by initiating the intifada, he is not often accused being too easy on the Palestinians.
But it is in no way "in the Palestinians court" any more so that is the conflict a tennis match.
Both sides face an uphill climb. Isreal passed this by a narrow margin and both the US and the Palestinians are still exerting pressure on Isreal to accept the "Roadmap" without that changes or wiggle room Isreal seeks.
On the Palestinian side Abu might truly be aware of the fact that the Intifada is not the way to go and that this is the time to end it. He faces a lot of really daft militants among him who are stupid enough to think that the suicide bombings and attacks make anystrategic sense. He faces a tough task of convincing the great number of Palestinians who view the process through a veil of hatred.
There are plenty on both sides but the misery and low level of education on the Palestinain side makes for a great many more in the population who are less objective. They have access to less in way of free press and this is reflected in their actions.
It's sad that the mere recognition of the opposing side's right to exist is such a precedent. To go so far as to say they deserve to exist and as well as the "luxury" of self determination and statehood is a big deal. And it's a pity thta such a declaration is still a milestone.
This is in no way in either side's court alone. Palestinians face a daunting task of reigning in the Palestinian militants who are stuck too far back in Palestinian history, wishing for a piece of the pie that's simply not going to be made available.
And with every failure to prevent an attack there is a step backwards on both sides. And there i every indication that there will be such failures. Neither Isreals fine military not Palestinian security agencies have succedded in eliminating all terror threats to Isreal.
I wish it were as simple as the ball being in one court. I guess you can say so, as long as your caveat is that in the court are a few million of the poorest, least educated, most densely packed population on one side, weilding rackets and weaponry on one side and a few million scared and angry people on the other who have been forced to use even bigger weaponry in their game.
On both sides efforts to move the location of the net to their liking seem to take precendence over the completion of the game.
Craven
What if as a result of Israel's withdrawal from the Palestinian towns and the allowing of Palestinians easy access to their jobs in Israel [relaxation of surveillance at check points] acts of terrorism continue and in fact increase. I would assume in that instance the road map would become a land mine. That is the possibility I was alluding to when I said the ball is in the Palestinians court.
As for acceptance of the road map there is no doubt that Israel will never under any circumstance accept the right of return.
Au,
I do not think Isreal should allow economic access to it's territory. I believe they should withdraw even if it's unilateral and should fence themselves off and police their side vigorously.
It has been largely successful in Gaza and if they do it in the West Bank the number of attacks will reduce even more.
As to the Palestinians if they are granted statehood many (not all) of their extramists will lose recruits. If Isreal is not occupying them there will be less i way of those willing to give their lives to kill israelis.
And for those who continue the sensless attacks there is the fence.
The Palestinian economy would suffer incredibly but their economy is not Isreal's responsibility. Eventually relations can be normalized.
I also think Isreal should not accept "right of return". But I was hoping they'd be more flexible in their timetable to withdraw settlements.
Withdrawing the settlemens now, for example, would give moderate Palestinian leaders political capital and give them a better ball to play with.
Craven,
If I am not mistaken one of the Palestinians problems is poverty, brought on by being unable to gain access to their jobs in Israel. Without Israel there is no Palestinian economy. Walling Israel off will increase rather than decrease the distress and poverty of the Palestinians. In addition not all the settlements will have to be dismantled and the borders have not been established where would the wall be placed. I am aware that at the present time Israel is building a fortified wall along certain parts of their border IMO it will not in the long run be effective. Like it or not the Palestinians need Israel as an economic partner.
I remember standing at the shore of the dead sea and looking at the Jordanian side. All I could see was barren nothingness. Than turning around and looking back at the Israeli side and seeing the greening of the desert. Israel had truly made the desert bloom. That could happen in what will be Palestine if there is peace.
The Palestinians need Isreal but they don't have a right to it. They ahve a right to self determination and i think normalization of trade with Isreal should come when the attacks cease. I happen to think that the declaration of a Palestinains state and the removal of the illegal (by Israeli definitions) settlements can already happen.
As to the borders it shouldn't be too hard. A "fair and equitable" settlement based on but not binded to the 1967 lines.
Where Isreal is entrenched outside of those lines they would give up land of equal value where there is a low level of settlement.
Some will be unhappy but if Isreal tries to come across as fair they can play a bit of hardball when Golan, Jerusalem and right of return are on the table.
BTW, I haven't seen you mention Palestinian poverty till now, you seem more concerned than am I.
I do not think Isreal owes Palestinians any economic consideration otehr than the Palestinian taxes they are witholding. I believe that when Abu gains Israeli trust it should be given to him with much fanfare.
And I think Europe and the US should make a showy economic package for Palestinians and that the US should quietly gice Isreal the package we've been promising as well as recognition ofJesrusalem as Isreal's capital when it's safe to do so (we'll probably ahve to allow Palestine's capital to be in their half of Jesrusalem as well in a symbolic move).
Craven
IMO Palestinian economy must be addressed with access to Israel being a key component. I read story after story where the greatest complaint of the Palestinians is there inability to get to their jobs in Israel. The best way to peace is filling a hungry mans belly. Keeping him hungry will keep him angry.
Dahaf poll: 62% Sharon surrendered to American dictate
******************************************************
Aaron Lerner Date: 26 May 2003
The following are the results of a Dahaf poll of a representative
sample of 505 adult Israelis (including Israeli Arabs) carried out on
25 May after the Cabinet decision on the roadmap.
[IMRA: It should be noted that the Israeli public has extremely
limited knowledge of the details of the roadmap.]
Should Israel agree to the roadmap plan proposed by President Bush?
Yes 56% No 34% No reply 10%
Do you think that implementation of the roadmap plan will change the
terror situation? Lead to calm 13% Weaken-not stop 34% Same as now
28% Increase 23% No reply 2%
Will the implementation of the roadmap plan lead to a final agreement
with the Palestinians? Yes 43% No 51% No reply 6%
Did Sharon think that the roadmap serves Israel's interests or did
his surrender to an American dictate? American dictate 62% Israeli
interests 23% Both 12% No reply 3%
Do you believe that Sharon is able to evacuate settlements and
withdraw from territories in accordance with the roadmap? Believe 66%
Don't believe 29% No reply 5%
