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Jazz will someone please put me right

 
 
kev
 
Reply Fri 12 May, 2006 09:12 am
I always thought that kenny ball, dave brubeck, Acker Bilk and the like was modern jazz, and trad jazz was the one where all the musicians improvised and just kind of made it up as they went along.

Have I had this back to front all these years??
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 665 • Replies: 15
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 May, 2006 10:02 am
Hey, Kev. Not familiar with Kenney Ball nor Acker Bilk, but Brubeck sorta changed the rules when he changed the meter such as in Take Five.

I always called BeBop frantic music, and never cared for it, but West Coast jazz is the cool type.

As for your question about traditional jazz, I am not certain how one may classify it, but improvisation most certainly is a characteristic, and it's rather like playing around the melody. Syncopation is also a characteristic of traditional jazz.

Having been a vocalist, all I know is what I sang. Mostly up tunes and jazz ballads.
0 Replies
 
Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 May, 2006 10:26 am
Re: Jazz will someone please put me right
What makes jazz "modern" or "traditional" is probably a controversial topic among affionados, but it definitely doesn't have anything to do with whether there's improvisation or not. Improvisation happens in all the jazz "eras," however you define them.
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kev
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 May, 2006 10:57 am
It, my bedtime, I'll get backto you tomorrow. Thankyou each
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hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 May, 2006 10:53 pm
Kenny Ball is trad, ie harping back to the New Orleans roots of Jazz, Acker Bilk is in that vein but has elements of 'smooth' jazz.

Modern Jazz puts more weight on improvisations by all players whereas trad stuck to formal arrangements with occasional improvisational solos from designated players.

Be Bop sits in modern jazz (it's proponents called trad players the 'moldy fig' crowd) but it is a particularly style using lots of fast chord progressions and syncopated rhythms.
0 Replies
 
kev
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 May, 2006 04:33 am
Letty wrote:
Hey, Kev. Not familiar with Kenney Ball nor Acker Bilk, but Brubeck sorta changed the rules when he changed the meter such as in Take Five.

I always called BeBop frantic music, and never cared for it, but West Coast jazz is the cool type.

As for your question about traditional jazz, I am not certain how one may classify it, but improvisation most certainly is a characteristic, and it's rather like playing around the melody. Syncopation is also a characteristic of traditional jazz.

Having been a vocalist, all I know is what I sang. Mostly up tunes and jazz ballads.


Letty your reply is more than welcome, but now I'm even more baffled than when I started, let me try and put this another way, you know when you listen to music, afterwards you can whistle the tune(for example Moon River)

Moon river, wider than a mile
I'm crossing you in style someday
dream maker you heart breaker
wherever you're going I'm going your way

Now you can hum that or sing that to yourself because it has a tune to it, what I'm asking is which jazz is it where every musician plays (improvises if you like does whatever he wants to the point where afterwards you couldn't hum it to yourself because there isn't any one rememberable tune, it's just a cacophany of sound



Confused
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yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 May, 2006 05:04 am
kev, you might be oversimplifying things. a composition can be quite memorable, yet be impossible to whistle. take anything with counterpoint, like Bach. since there are several simultaneous melodies, it's impossible for one person to whistle, but you can still recognize the piece as soon as you hear it.

it would be easier to answer your question if you can name a musician or piece that is an example of the type of jazz you're describing.
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 May, 2006 06:00 am
Everyone here, Kev, has given you some idea of the nature of jazz, but because it is a creative thing, that makes it illusive to define. Let's just say that jazz as a genre is the only pure American music, having evolved from the slaves as they worked in the fields. Don't worry too much about the labels, because that is too confining. To quote a black friend of my sister's in reference to BeBop:

That's the kind of off the wall stuff that you quit enjoying and go to appreciating. Love it!
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 May, 2006 05:07 pm
kev, when you get a chance, listen to this and tell us what you think:

http://www.minibite.com/oldies/oldbmagic.htm
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 May, 2006 06:27 pm
Disagreeing just a tiny bit with hingehead: Acker Bilk is the Danish version of Chris Barber (= as popular - even today - as Chris), while Kenny Ball is the bandleader of one of the very first wellknown British trad groups (more sticking than others on the ragtime kind).

(I've seen Acker Bilk 1964 in London: he was one of the "house bands" of the [Oxford Street] Club 100 [the other was the 'Radio Veronica Big Band'].)
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hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 May, 2006 11:06 pm
Hi Walter - I never realised Acker Bilk was Danish - I just know his one big hit 'Stranger on the shore' was originally called Jennifer, and that his clarinet sound makes me feel car sick.
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kev
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 02:05 am
hingehead wrote:
Hi Walter - I never realised Acker Bilk was Danish - I just know his one big hit 'Stranger on the shore' was originally called Jennifer, and that his clarinet sound makes me feel car sick.


I dont think Walter meant to say that he was Danish hingehead he is from the south west.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acker_Bilk
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 06:52 am
Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed

The US South-West must have really confused me.

I've about 500 dixieland/New Orleans (style) cd's, mostly from the British jazz scene ...

My only excuse for this might be that I saw an email from my online cd shop in Denmark shortly before I posted my above idiocy ...
0 Replies
 
kev
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 May, 2006 06:30 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed

The US South-West must have really confused me.

I've about 500 dixieland/New Orleans (style) cd's, mostly from the British jazz scene ...

My only excuse for this might be that I saw an email from my online cd shop in Denmark shortly before I posted my above idiocy ...


Don't be so hard on yourself Walter we know that Germany make the best cars in the world and that Germans are the finest engineers in the world and that you make the finest sausages in the world, but it doesn't mean you can't make a tiny mistake now and again. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 May, 2006 06:44 am
You are right, but in this case I really should have known even when sleeping.


And too kind to mention all that. Your internet connection or A2K was a little bit out of order since all your doxologies about German football didn't appear online.

But I won't complain either ...










Laughing
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 May, 2006 08:02 am
after eating that fish taco, walter, maybe you're lucky that a little confusion was the worst effect. Razz
0 Replies
 
 

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