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Affirmative Action

 
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 09:41 am
dyslexia wrote:
an article a few weeks ago in USA TODAY showed many major colleges and universities have affirmative action programs that favor men over equally qualified women in order to maintain gender balance.

I tried searching their site for the article, with no luck. If you remember the title, it might help me find it. Sounds interesting.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 09:41 am
You bet . . . well ? . . . we're waiting . . .








We're still waiting . . .
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 09:44 am
scrat

It's your claim, along with all it implies. Get off your butt, mount a case to back up what you claim, or don't bother expecting anyone to even bother talking with you.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 09:53 am
Here is a link to the National Education Association's pages on the subject of "No Child Left Behind." Take away all of the administration's self-serving burro-shito, and you're left with the fact that the failure to provide federal funds as promised has created that boogey man of the Republicans, "the unfunded mandate," for schools right across the country. There are links on this page for a state by state breakdown of what was promised and what has actually been delivered.

NEA's "No Child Left Behind" Pages[/color]
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 10:17 am
Set, Your link confirms what my impressions have been about our educational system in the US. It just seems obvious when music and athletic programs are being cut in most of our schools, and teachers are unable to find housing in our area, because it's too expensive. You don't improve our education of our children by cutting programs and teachers - it's that simple. "Leave no child behind?" Yeah, sure, tell me about it. c.i.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 11:01 am
blatham wrote:
george


... But this line needs attention..."the modern secular religion of political correctitude."

You equate two things (faith and secularity) which are different in very critical ways. That's a common maneuver for faith holders (which you may or may not be) who are unhappy with the diminished influence of the church. Your first post above, last paragraph, makes a clear suggestion that this is your position. Atheism leads to retrograde morals, etc. ...

You posit that a secular world view and a faith world view are but two instances of the same thing - belief, perhaps. That is absolutely false. ...

The absence of agreement with a popular belief structure does not make for a second religion. Secularity or atheism are not religious positions, they are very simply instances of folks not accepting the green leprecaun thesis.


Well, I was tempted to hit you with a few Medieval syllogisms, but I'll pass.

I suggest that the modern grammatical doctrines of political correctitude are but the cant of a belief system that is not only far from having a rigorous basis in empirical fact, but which also springs from a priori assumptions which, while not necessarily relating to a creator, involve as much presumed infallibility as any faith based doctrine. While they may not involve the normal questions of faith directly, they have all their other characteristics. The modern secular doctrines are hardly detached, scientific, and devoid of values - quite the opposite is true.

With regard to your epistemological distinctions, I believe atheism should be held as equivalent to faith in a creator. Agnosticism is a bit different in that it suspends judgement. The cant of religion and the cant of political correctitude alike admit of no uncertainty. The former, however, is - at least in some cases - more lyrical and possessed of elements of soul-satisfying poetry than is the latter.

Just as astrophysics couldn't explain the evolution of the observable universe without the mind-bending notion of quantum inflation, biologists are now confronted with contradictions between accepted notions of orderly genetic evolution and the age of the planet - there just hasn't been enough time for the specified process to have done what we observe has been done.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 11:15 am
I'm reversing, going back to the primordial slime where attitudes seemed so much more progressive.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 11:20 am
Scrat -- You're the one who believes in a large federal increase. You provide the backup.
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jackie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 12:10 pm
Quote:
I'm reversing, going back to the primordial slime where attitudes seemed so much more progressive.


Hey Tartarin, I'm goin' with you.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 12:15 pm
um tart, we had a vote some months ago and primordial ooze won out over slime....
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 12:16 pm
Tartar, If the feds increased their funding from .01c to .25c, that's a huge increase - percentage wise only. We are all aware that school funding have been strapped for many years. For any president to use such rhetoric as "Leave no child behind" is worse than phart - it stinks, and it's useless. LOL c.i.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 12:52 pm
The interplay between fed and state sometimes shocks me. In the gap between the two, many skeletons are buried...

As for education, I think we have to redefine what "good education" means. It's almost impossible to have this discussion without starting with what we want, what we expect. Me? I'm sickened by the degree to which the fundamentalist god thing has perverted both education and the discussions about it. Much, much blame must fall on the shoulders of those leaders who have caved in to the blurring of distinction between public and religious schools. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the latter, but there needs to be a firewall between the two.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 12:58 pm
blatham wrote:
scrat

It's your claim, along with all it implies. Get off your butt, mount a case to back up what you claim, or don't bother expecting anyone to even bother talking with you.

Blatham - I don't bother talking to you, and this is a perfect example of why. You are a hypocrite. When I ask others for citations, you love to tell me to "do my own homework". Getting treated to such childishness long enough, I've decided that it doesn't make sense for me to waste my time being courteous and helpful to people who don't know the meaning of those words. I am only playing by the rules you, Tart and others have taught me here.

Just one example... when I asked Lola to cite information to back up a claim she made, you jumped in with this little gem of pompous incivility...

Blatham wrote:
Thu May 15, 2003 10:29 am Post subject:
--------
Scrat

You are at a disadvantage in this discussion then. One really ought to have some familiarity with the topic at hand to engage rewardingly in it. Perhaps if you do some reading ...

So, when I am citing facts of which you and yours ought to be fully aware, I will likewise place the burden of educating yourselves on you. (And if that means you won't "bother talking with" me, more the better!)
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 08:01 pm
"...When first developed in the 1960s, affirmative action formed part of a far broader program for attacking both poverty and racial inequality, including a domestic Marshall Plan to reverse urban decay and create jobs, and government action to end housing segregation and drastically improve urban public education. This program has virtually vanished. Affirmative action, the one surviving element, must be defended, but with no illusions that it alone can adequately address the enduring legacy of 250 years of slavery and a century of Jim Crow. In the long run, the Court's decision will be cause for cheer only if it serves to reinvigorate a broader struggle for racial equality...."

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030714&s=foner
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 08:49 pm
george

Gosh...we'd definitely get into an argument on a bunch of stuff there. But that ought to be a different thread. Set up whatever question you prefer, and we atheists will whup ya soundly (plus frank, our guerrilla agnostic).
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 09:27 pm
white anglo-saxon heathens as well - the W.A.S.H. brigade
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 09:39 pm
dys

could you somehow work that around so it becomes U.N.W.A.S.H.E.D?
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 09:41 pm
nah. i've kinda gotten used to bubble baths
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 09:48 pm
Hi, dys. If we are getting into religion, I'm changing sides again. Sorry George.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2003 09:54 pm
hi rog, we dont have sides here just various points of view..
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